Kasandra Morgan - it's a question of ethics

Well then I suppose the logical thing for her to do NOW would be to sell off that land and pay you the money she had promissed you.

Hugz best of luck to you sweets.

Cath

wow. what a thread. tony, that sucks man. one of those crappy situations where, if mom's ruled the world, you would win. unfortunately, unscrupulous players are rewarded daily in our adult-hood.

best of luck tony. pick yourself up, dust yourself off, fix the exploit and make another go at it.

meanwhile, i'll be adding another person to my 'list'.

I haven't read the forums in a while and then I come back and see a flashback of things that have happened before. I'll say again what I said in another thread: this game is buggy. Even if Tony admits that it was partly his fault for the script being buggy because of a mistake he made, it doesn't take away the fact that the scripting in this game is buggy. Even if he had done things perfectly, it would someone would have found a way to exploit it because...say it with me...the game is buggy.

Unfortunately, there are people out there who would exploit this (not signaling out anyone). We all have seen people who finds bugs in the permissions, copy items and sell them at a profit. Just the other day I bought an item, to realize later that the person sold me a Linden item (serves me right for not checking who was the creator )

It's all up to the person who notices these bugs to do the right thing. I experiment with the permissions to see what can and cannot be done. I have found bugs in peoples items and then I notify them so nobody will exploit it. I keep the item and don't resell or copy it out of respect to the creator (and I have a conscience that would not let me sleep at night if I do something wrong). Incidentally, I bought an item from Lordfly that was copy/mod/no transfer and during my modding process to make it more fitting for me (changing textures, eliminating walls, etc.), the item became full permissions (mod/copy/transfer. I really don't know what happened, but it was a permissions bug. Don't worry Lordfly, I haven't tried to resell it . Contact me ingame if you want to know which item it was.

Not really a forum hijacking, just comparing scripting bugs to game bugs, which are both reocurring in SL, and also ranting about conscience and morality .

Just a quick hijack. Just because an item says it was made by someone, a Linden for example, doesn't always mean it was. I made a sectional using a few prims copied from the Linden Corbiuser (sp) couch. Says it was made by that Linden, but is nothing like the couch.

Day before yesterday Tony came by and raised the white flag realizing the public flogging approach wasn't working. We sat down, talked and will work something out. We might even go into business together. Interesting how things sometimes work out....

That is great to know I commend you both for putting your differences aside and decided to work something out.

Indeed! Congrats on working your differences out. Tony is a much more trusting individual than I am, as there's no way in hell I would enter into a biz deal w/you after that.

I mean come on. Putting myself in Tony's shoes for a moment: you find an exploit in my code, used it to clean out my wallet, told me you'd give it back, then went back on your word after gambling it all away. Yes.. those are definately attributes I'd look for in a trusting business partner.

Anyway.... best of luck to you both. Good to see you've worked it out.

I agree Juro!!!

I am glad you two seem to have come to some reconciliation.
Its always good to see things settle instead of fester.

I personally wouldn't trust Kas one bit.

Watch your back Ton!!!

I base this opinion on HER words in this thread. By those alone (without the help of any respondants), I have decided that I will stay in my part of SL, and FAR away from Omega Games.

Eggy, what WERE you thinking!>??!?!


~~Alana

While I can't say I wasn't surprised that he wanted to go into business with me after all this, I can say that he knows more about me and the situation that what you do from "just my posts". Why? Because it was his business.

And if you want to make judgements on my character over my post in a very heated thread to the point were you avoid me in game, well then, go ahead, your loss.

As for what Eggy was thinking, I am not usually one to make guesses at what goes through a person's mind, but how about, "Wow, she works, hard got the whole casino built in one day. Man, she spent another day just on getting the games to work fairly. Now she is holding event after event so people will know about the casino. She is really dedicated to this and wants to see it succeed. I'm glad I picked her for the job."

Thank you for REITERATING my point.

Best of luck to all your endeavors.


Alana

Thanks, I already did. However, they weren't formulated from just a random post, but your own words. You basically (when it's all boiled down) admitted: your word and your trustworthiness aren't worth the screen you're viewing this on.
I'm not saying you're an evil spiteful person, but not someone I'd trust to do business with. I hang with shady people all the time in RL.. but would never let them have any doings with my $$$.

Not a great loss on either side Kasandra. I doubt you were pining for me to be your best-est friend.

I am, in all seriousness, glad that you two made good and have moved on.

See ya 'round SL.

I'd like to take Kasandra's words and make them mine.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."
(Matthew 7:1 - KJV)

For what it's worth, I met kasandra before this whole shebang arose. But frankly, you people are just shallow. How dare you pass judgement on someone you've never taken the time to get to know?
Jesus, if people were to judge me by the endless stream of grumpy rants I throw into these forums I would not have a single friend in Second Life.

Comeon now Eggy...

I'm not saying I'd never socialize with Kasandra or that Kasandra is pond scum. I said Kasandra is not someone that I'd trust to do business with.. that's all. And for what it's worth, that was based on Kasandra's own admissions, not on the words of others, which usually are a bad source to get info from.

So, Eggy, does it make it any less shady that Kasandra took advantage of an exploit, emptied the wallet of the owner, promised to return the money, and then went back on her word, because you *know* Kasandra?

If it does, please elaborate.

For a person that reads what I say closely enough to determine if I am a person to do business with, you keep missing a very important point I made over and over. I DIDN'T EXPLOIT THE GAME TO TAKE HIS MONEY. When I took it my intentions were completely alturistic at that time. If you are gonna condemn me for something at least make it the right reason. Spending the money after I said I was gonna give it back, even though a combination of not realizing how much it was, thinking the ethics in that situation were different in SL than in RL from what I was told and lack of self control in casinos are enough excuses that I can sleep, they are excuses nonetheless, so pass judgement away.

Had I known then what I know now, wouldn't have spent the money. Not because I'd want to avoid all this, I am a bit of an attention whore so this was the worst "get me" plan ever. (well, not the worst plan ever, I did lose a few things I can't get back) But because I don't like hurting good people and in the end I realized that Tony was good people. But hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? If it happened again I would do things differently.

And if you really want to judge me, my net worth is maybe 60k so if I sold off everything I own then I could quite possibly pay him 2/3s of it. No excuse for not doing that other than, don't wanna, its everything I own, come on now. Judge away.

And the reason you are having such a hard time convincing Eggy that I would make a horrible business partner is because he has been in business with me for weeks now and hasn't found a big shiny daggar in his back. I am honorable 98% of the time, you just met me on a bad day.

My apologies Kasandra. I must have mis-judged you. After reading your last post, I can see where you good intentions were coming from.

I won't be so quick to judge on the words of the individual the next time they confess to wrong-doings.

I'm glad that you and Tony have worked it out and that Eggy has yet to discover the dagger in his back, as you say.

I did not, however, realize that honor came in fractional quantities. Interesting.

Kasandra took advantage of nothing. The machine was broken. I have lost money before on broken games, to the tune of seveal thousand dollars, and I didnt whine about it, because I knew it was by my faulty coding that the game was broken.

An "exploit" usually involves someone studying the system with malicious intent. This has happened before. Chance Small once walked around with a backpack full of listeners, trying to capture script-to-script messages, intending to hack them. And so he did.

Now if you were at a RL casino, playing at a RL slot machine that always seemed to give you five coins every time you put a single coin in it, would you keep putting coins on it or not? I think you would.

Kasandra did not exhibit malicious intent, and the lindens found her innocent. Why dont you?
The matter has been settled between the two of them, as it should have been in the first place, since IMHO and to put it bluntly it was never any of you people's business to begin with.
Kasandra did nothing that in any way affected you or anyone else who's bothered to attack her on this thread.

To me, Kasandra is someone who took a burden off my chest. I am pleased with her work, and so is Ama.
Her past is water under the bridge

You people should realize that it's hardly possible for either Kasandra or Khamon to hold a dagger to my back. I no longer own any of the gambling machines in the world, and as soon as I can be arsed to go get a credit card, I will be selling off my linden bucks in their entirety.
Me, Kas, and Khamon, are partners mostly in that I'm the one footing the land allocation (as a Lifer I have plenty of it for free) and getting a small share of the dwell like any group member would.
Now let's put an end to the witch hunt, shall we?

Umm..maybe I'm missing something here, but didn't kasandra tell Tony she had spent all the money she was going to give him...and that she was broke..and then go out and buy 60k worth of land? She hasn't been in SL very long. How did she come up with 60k suddenly for the land, and if she had 60k previously, why did she tell Tony she couldn't pay him back because she didn't have the money?

I'm not saying she stole Tony's money orignally, but I am saying she said she would give it back and then didn't. And she didn't give it back because she got greedy and thought of herself only.

Unethical and dishonest behavior is ok? Greed and breaking ones own word is ok? Saying "I didn't wanna" is a valid excuse? Wow..SL really does mirror real life closely in some ways.

We shouldn't judge her because we don't know her? Well..out of her own mouth is the admission of guilt, lack of remorse and her self-absorption with what she wants, not how it effects others. I guess we shouldn't judge anyone ever by their actions, but only just by "getting to know them"?

60k worth of land? Where?

Kasandra took advantage of the fact that the machine was broken. There is a simple matter of what is right and wrong to do in life. Just because she had the ability to do this does not mean it was the right thing to do, and I find it interesting how you just overlook that fact. Her actions cannot be justified, they were flat out wrong. If an ATM machine kept giving you money when it was only supposed to give you $20, anything you take beyond that point is theft. You know this is not how it is meant to function and there is a problem, but you take advantage of it anyway. A child knows the simple difference between right and wrong, it amazes me how many "adults" don't seem to.

And Tony has taken responsibility for the machine being broken, he has never "whined" about the original loss of money. It was the actions by Kasandra that followed that triggered all of this.

Cristiano

Hell...all those games are rigged. They have no comparison to real life gaming. Especially those globe pots or whatever pots with the posted odds. I bet Tony made a huge mint off of that before Kasandra won. Sooo....in conclusion...gambler beware...casinos are evil. This coming from an avowed addict.

I don't think this has anything to do with people being judgemental.

Trust is earned. Always has been, always will be.

It's as simple as that.

Sigh...if you really want a record of my finances.

Before this all happened, I had 20k by my second day and I had been blowing and getting money like anyone would with play money, and I usually had a balance of 20k still. I spent it and got it in chunks and since all this happened when I was 2 weeks old I didn't know the value of 80k.

Day 1: Playing at Tony's casino, finds the problem, decides to hold the money for him, sends him an IM.

Day 2: Gets convinced Tony is rich, makes 5k a day, doesn't need the money, things work differently in SL than in RL(actually that one I assumed after being told the rest), he won't even expect it back, probably has the majority of his money on another account, I won it, I should keep it and I was stupid if I didn't, yadda yadda.

Day 3: Haven't heard from Tony, maybe other people were right and he doesn't care. Starts blowing the money. Gambling, handing it out to newbies, no idea its actual value.

Day 5: IM from Tony, thanks for holding my money. Reply: Sorry, I spent it, didn't think you were coming back for it.

Day 7: Find out second hand that was all Tony's money, still thinking casino owners make 5k per day, per person, I buy money to hold a big event in hopes to make enough to pay it back.

Day 8: Still no reply from Tony, figured he was off rightfully hating me somewhere, but this was all done and over with. Also found out that money sales for almost as much as it can be bought for so I can get land and keep it paid for using Linden. Spent the rest of my savings on Linden with it in mind that my birthday was coming up, so I should get enough money to live off of from that.

Day 10: As I am building a house on that land you speak of, I get an IM from Tony asking can we work out a payment plan. I say I need to see how much I make to decide on an amount for payments. Figured if I made money enough to keep me at 20k when I was blowing it then when I wasn't blowing it I should get tons of money. Paid 5k to him to start.

Day 11: Walk past a casino, blow all my money for the billionth time. This time no savings to replenish it. Realize I don't have the self discipline for a payment plan and decide to offer Tony half. Just turn my birthday money straight into Linden and be broke for the rest of the semester. That way he wouldn't be broke in game and I wouldn't be trying to make money to pay him weekly AND make money to pay for my tier.

Day 12: He didn't like my offer for half, and there was no way I could pay it all. So this started.

So there, thats everything.

There's been quite a furor over this whole thing, and I've been sitting quietly by...but now I'm thinking hey - I'm missing out on the fun. So below are my thoughts on the matter.



Ummmm.....how did you manage to get 20K in two days? I remember by first few weeks in SL, it was with maybe a thousand L$, nowhere near 20K. Even now I've never topped 10K or so.




That was very nice of you. Most people would've taken the money and run. But you did the nice thing - you didn't take advantage of his unfortunate circumstances to drain him dry. (BTW - just because it was a bug doesn't mean two wrongs are a right. Kicking a man just because he has a 'kick me' sign taped to his butt doesn't make it right.)




In other words...you decided to keep the money, you liked the money, you had the urge to spend it, and you didn't really want to fess up to kicking the man while he was down. So you convinced yourself and made an assumption about how he would have felt - without really waiting for a response.




Two days to wait is nothing. Legally, the waiting period is six weeks - at least if you were to find something someone lost in r/l.




Oops...looks like your assumptions were wrong. How could something so unlikely have happened?




Assumptions assumptions. Not to mention that no matter how much he makes in a day, the guy still has a right to keep what's his. Wealthy does not equate to permission to steal/exploit/'hold' his money, even if he can earn more.




Feels nice to have L$, doesn't it? Know what feels nicer? Returning ill-begotten money to its rightful owner.




Nice gesture




So, because you apparently have a gambling problem (which got you in this state in the first place) and can't control yourself, Tony should have to eat half of the money you owe? You unfairly took advantage of a bug in the system and, rather than sticking to your word to return it, then went ahead and blew it again on whatever caught your whims at the time. And now that you've bled him (and yourself) dry, he should take only a half-strength proverbial kick?

I'm in agreement with Tony on this one, but only from a certain point in your story. As unfortunate as it was that there was a bug in his machines, it does not lessen the fact that it was wrong to exploit that bug to your own advantage. Two wrongs dont make a right. If you had returned the money as you had promised, you'd be lauded as a good samaritan - except for the fact you didnt. You took the guy for a ride on the sleaze train, throw him off at high speed, and then try to pin the blame on him for your actions.

Gotta love gambling addictions. Perhaps Tony will strike a deal in your favour - he forgives half/all of your debt to him in exchange that you own up to your problem and take responsibility for it. And that includes seeking out help, because it's apparent the gambling is playing you, not the other way around.


The shame here isn't the money that's been taken, although that could easily have been....it's the fact that the culprit will not admit to her actions and instead tries to force the ugly side of the compulsion onto someone whose 'crime' was write a bad script.


- Newfie Pendragon

Sigh...I give up. Don't recall saying anyone who writes a bad script deserves to get kicked in the ass but if you say so, okay. And I didn't really "like" having the money that much as it was gone in about 24 hours after I started spending with nothing to show for it.

I am surprised that no one has told me I should get help to give up the game as I can't blow money in a game I am not playing.