Second Life <-> Real World Property Rigths

Re This:
/3/5d/6763/1.html

Wow! I mean... wow. Who ever heard of a comany expanding users' rights? Thanks Linden Labs. This is so incredibly good, not in immediate terms (that too, though), but in what it allows.

You could now run an actual factual business in SL, metaverse-stlyz. You could make a machinema cartoon in SL and sell it. You could finally write your screenplay about one brave avatar's quest to find love in the topsy-turvy world of event hosting.

This is excellent news, because it was something I was concerned about. I'd uploaded several images and designed objects, and I *expected* them to remain mine, but I didn't know for certain. Now that's settled.

Next step: Linden Lab pays us real-world money for creating things in-world.

Yes, excellent news indeed, and I um... wholy endorse this product or sevice.. er yes... something like that.

Only trouble is, on trying to log in, I get a box asking me to agree to the new terms or quit... and it will neither load the text nor allow me to click anything.

Oh well... so much for offering me more.

This is great news, awsome step LL.

But it opens a door for users to be real carefull on publishing/marketing their content in SL.

I am only saying this a a watch it. To those who would.

If you were around long enough, you may remember a few disscussions in the forums based on Copyrighted textures.

Now say you get a texture via screen shot. You want to use this texture in a build/design of some sort. Then you think cool I can use this RL (for what I dunno, just for arguements sake here).

Now if the original creator of this texture has a copyright on it. And you go ahead and use it RL. You open a can-o-worms on yourself with the other user who copyrighted it.

This is just off the top of my head atm. But I hope ya can see where I am going with this. It's a user beware of other users now .

I'm not complaining about LL doing this, not at all. Just a fyi to users so other users don't get burned.

Also on a theoretical note. Wednesday, if you create a SL skit/show/movie. if any textures show up that are not your creation ex: Linden created ground texture, or neighboring textures. What does this mean to the person creating the skit/movie/etc...?

Charlie, bottom line there: anything one creates as of today: don't use whatever someone else made unless you have permission. Anything made prior to today falls under the old ToS, and therefore copyright does not apply (see FAQ).

Many braincells may be killing themselves on how to take full advantage of this, and it seems my avatar's staff of RL persons will have to be expanded by 2 lawyers at least. Can I incorporate my avatar?

Hippothetically, if a U.S. player would want to take legal action against a non-U.S. player (who technically don't even exist), would that mean that the U.S. player would have to come to The Hague?

Avatars too... suppose you make a movie, in which other avatars appear, and you want to distribute that movie and make money?

(I wish...)

Do we then need the Second Life Actors Guild <SLAG ?!> to ensure that residuals are properly disbursed...?

=SV

I'm not thinkin of tryin to use my creations in SL let alone anyone else's for RL gain. just a brainstorm I had regarding a kinda recent issue brought up about player property.

I'm not fretting over it, but yea, hehe I think I need a lawyer to play this game too now lol j/k

Both of these are analogous to real life. Let's say you take a picture of someone copyrighted work (say, a photograph in a museum), you go to a print shop, have it blown up big and hang it on your wall. I think you're pretty much ok, legally speaking. Now, if you printed a bunch of these and tried to sell them, then you would be in trouble.

In the second case, it's like shooting a movie in the real world. There was a case recently (in New York, I think) where the owners of some famous building had a problem with some movie because the building was in the movie, but it didn't hold water.

Now of course, you should interpert everything I say as if I am a lawyer. An evil lawyer, who is working for your enemies, and is trying to get you to act so that they can sue the pants off of you.

Well, just as I was thinking "this is the kind of think Slashdot would love" it shows up right on the front page.

clicky

I didn't get it posted to BoingBoing, but I did get the update link to the press release posted.

I don't understand how this affects us practically. I mean, we can't take stuff out of the game to sell, I can't see anything selling on ebay, any custom texture would have been made at home and then uploaded, I can't see making something and then somehow making money in the RL with it.

In world, we have new permissions to prevemt buying something and then copying it to sell as your own.

Aside from sounding nice, could someone explain to me what this really means?

Some random things you can do now that you couldn't do before

a) Create an avatar, get action figures of the avatar made and sell them (in RL I mean).

b) Write books, upload them and sell them in world, while still maintaining ownership of the work

c) Make an on-line comic using actors from SL, and try to make money off it.

These are just three things I thought of off the top of my head. (But see my note about being an evil lawyer, above).

OHHH I want a Jellin Pico Exotic Dancer action figure!!!

There's no "if" about it Charlie. If you create something (a piece of art, a short story, etc) it's already copyrighted. A person owns the copyright on their creations by default. Filing the paperwork with the copyright office just makes it easier to prove ownership if it ever becomes a legal issue. You don't have to do that to own the copyright though.

http://www.andgor.com/Personalized_Figures/personalized_figures.html

Does this mean that people will now start selling avatars, builds, models, scripts, services, etc for r/l money? Isn't that what There.com residents do?

This is just amazing. I can't express how much admiration I have for the Lindens choosing the road less travelled.

This is a great game run by a truly innovative company.

Id change the user agreement so that if anyone is caught doing this, they will be banned. Buying and selling for RL money is a sure way to put a game right in the toilet.

There is a difference between "can do" and "forced to do".

Also, if I understand the TOS of There (and there is a good chance I don't). You must pay them RL money to upload your creations which then become their property.

But this is not another There bashing thread (NATBT). I am calling a red-card on all There bashing/boostierism in this thread. It's done, that's it, there is no appeal.

If people are selling things person to person for real money, that is really their business. It is an entirely different model than There, which makes spending of real dollars integral to gameplay.

I would definately complain if Linden Labs started charging us for L$, but if someone inworld wanted $5 for their hoverbike I would just laugh.

The major point of this change is, in my estimation, to allow us to retain the rights to things we upload rather than giving them over to LL. As Lordfly stated in one of the comments on the slashdot post "It's so Linden Labs can't get rich off your poetry."

Although it's been a long time since ANYONE got rich by writing poetry.

AS mr. Grimm pointed out, this probably won't have much of an effect near term, or even for most players, but this is considered big news as the basic definition for a virtual world is changing because of it. You can think of it like this - no longer is this world just the property of Linden Lab, now you actually DO own some of it - you own what you put into it. So its kinda a reward for being creative and making SL a better place.

For some intellectual types thoughts on this change, check out terra nova and one of the earlier threads
these guys are the heavy-weights talking about intellectual property in virtual worlds.

Now I just have to figure out how to pitch the "BuhBuhCuh Fairchild Story" to CBS (They need something to fill the Reagan airtime.)

I suppose it means I can take stuff like this:

http://www.getingame.com/games/sl/classes/build101shock/build101.aspx

...and sell/license it. I've been playing with using SL as a tool to make interactive training media for some time. Benefit info, orientation, product training, you name it.

If you want, you'll need shockwave to see it.

http://sdc.shockwave.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?&P5_Language=English

Hmmm, since There was mentioned, I thought you might want to hear There's policy on ownership of original content from in-world. Following is a post I made to There forums back in early June regarding the RL marketing of goods based upon things made and sold within There, and the official company reply from There_Socializer commenting on There's policy:
-----------------------------------------
Re: Real-World There Merchandise (June 12, 2003)


The problem is, does that mean There has the copyright rights to all items in-game? If Phedre wanted to market "Bad Kitty" shirts IRL, would she be unable to because they are property of There? And what's to stop me from creating my own shirt (it's not hard to create iron-on transfers on your ink-jet printer using an Avery product) with something about There on it? Would the There police come after me if I did this? Probably only if I decided to sell copies to others.

This is an issue I've been considering since I bought my first item of There clothing....
------------------------------------------
(Reply from There_Socializer, June 17, 2003)

Beryl,

Check the current version of the developer agreement. The designs used in developer content are owned by the designer and can be reproduced "in real life" without violating any agreement with There.

There_Socializer
-------------------------------------------
(My Note: Developers are what There calls players who make and sell clothing and other items in-world.)

Hmm, thats funny, here is a snip from the There "member agreement"



That seems like some pretty strong "No, you don't have any rights anymore" language, I mean, they are even taking rights that don't even exist yet!

Since this has been declared a "Not another there-bashing thread" i will be fair, and say that pretty much every other mmo out there does this.

Zeph