Bush wants a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages

I only said it was illogical, and I also said in my opinion. I never dismissed anything, I just looked at it differently just like everyone else does when things come down too logic in general.

You told her that her beliefs were illogical, i.e. *not logical*. How does one arrive at such a conclusion without employing logic then? One can only infer that you were using your idea of logic to formulate your opinion. My apologies if I misunderstood you.

If you've ever read The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, you'd know it would take you far enough to disprove the bible. Discuss amongst yourselves.

Sometimes you gotta have faith . Wheather people call it blind or not.

Well, you obviously haven't read it, then.

Nope, I havent, and im not going too. If I didnt want to be a christian I would have became an aetheist a while back. Why should I read something that is going to persuade me too becoming an aethist in some way or another? I dont have doubts that in my religion so big enough too want to read this "Age of Reasoning".

Well Apex, unlike Christianity (or any other religion, don't want to appear to bash on Christians now..), you don't *choose* to be gay.

Funny isn't it. Your lifestyle choice is being used to discriminate against others.

Last time I checked, this was a democracy, where we are all (supposed to be) equal in the eyes of the law. Yet you and others like you feel it is perfectly acceptable to use our laws to pass judgement on others.

So, if this passes, do I get a 'gay refund' on my tax return? Because if thats the case, I surely don't want to fund your marital rights. Just wouldn't seem right. Pay the government to continue to deny me the same, EQUAL, privelages you have? I'm not a genius, but I'm definately not stupid.

uhm what in the world are you talking about? did i say ANYWHERE in any of my post that i hate same sex relationships and whoever is in one should all go too hell? no, i didnt, last time i checked that was what we call "discrimination" and i dont do that math, ontop of that, its ignorant too hate (keyword hate) someone due to their beliefs, or sexual prefences for that matter. Yeah in my religion its wrong to be gay, does that mean that i despise all gay people? "Love your neighboor" is one of the many messages that the bible presents to us, this is america and i think that gays should have the RIGHT to get married, even though it is considered wrong and immoral to most including me too get married in a somewhat "holy" church enviorment. does not mean their not just as equal as anyone else, nor that i wish the worst for them, since i dont.

So what's your argument?

I have a belief that im trying to defend, although its not really seen as an argument in my eyes, more like freedom.

So are you for or against gay marraige? If you're against it, you're obviously imposing your religion upon others, thus NOT loving thy neighbor. Get off the fense, por favor.

I am for it, denying them the right too get married is not equality, but injustice which is not what our country stands for. What im trying to say is that they should be able to get married, even though its a anomaly to be married in a same/sex relationship that involves the church, aside from the homosexual priest, which i also belive is an anolmaly.

- p.s. Que usted significan sobre esta "cerca", no estaba enterado yo estaba en una?

Alright, thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression you were against it, so I'm sure you can see why your posts confused me

Yo no hablo espanol muy bien, pero pienso qué usted dijo hace no sentido Approximate (human) translation:

What you signify on this "nearby," was not aware I was in a?

"Ban religion" huh? That's the greatest piece of BS I've read in this thread.

I know that religions aren't perfect, but to want to ban them is prepostorous. I can't believe there are some of you out there who believe religion is evil. Someone turns to religion because of the belief that it will turn him/her into a better person--and most of the time it does. I wouldn't want to imagine a world without religion. . .it would be a cold, frigid, soul-less, dark place. . .

By the way I'm not religious at all. . .but I do believe that there is some sort of god. Maybe some day I'll find a religion that will be for me. . .

. . .But it won't be Christianity--been there done that. I don't believe in the Bible anymore. And it's one of the reasons I disagree with you Christopher. I frankly still fail to see a legitimate reason to oppose same-sex marriage.

Where are all the people who oppose same-sex marriage? Surely there must be more?! C'mon don't be afraid or intimadated by all these left-wing liberals. Speak out!

Apex, Darwin esta en lo correcto. Esta frase no hace sentido camarada.

Here, here!

Pepper, I'm not religious either. Personally, for me, I think it's a bunch of rubbish. But, that is my personal opinion. I also do not think religion, of any kind, should be banned, EVER!

I just have a very large problem when religion, one in specific, is used to try to 'mold' this country into something those members of said religion want it to be, with no regard to the rest of us. That is why church and state should be separate.

Apex, thanks for clarifying your stance. I, too, was under the impression from your earlier posts that you were against marriage for everyone, including gay women and men.

So, Christopher, about my gay tax credit..

Aha! So now you know exactly how gays feel about this proposed amendment.

I would never support a ban on religion. I was making a rhetorical point. I do, however, dream of a future free of the self-reliance stealing engine of despair, prejudice, opression, and war that is religion. There's nothing that religion has to offer that people shouldn't be able to find within themselves... hope, compassion, love, faith, altrusim, strength, morality... not a single one of those things was invented by religion. They've been around since before there was a bible, or torah, or koran... and they'll still be around when we outgrow our childhood fairytales. People shouldn't need the promise of a grand reward or a horrible punishment to know that the golden rule is a pretty good idea.

self-reliance stealing engine. . .childhood fairytales. . .

Do you have more derisive remarks to make about religion?




That may be true, but in general, religion sure does augment all those things.

Thanks for that great link. I've been looking for such a list for ages! This page must be on a server behind a modem though, it's incredibly slow.

Wow! there is so much to reply to in this thread, but I could not let this one pass by.

It is always interesting how when faced with having to justify this type of ignorance and discrimination, people often go the route of bringing up every form of sexual deviance and saying you need to allow that too. I'll address bestiality, incest, and I'll throw in child molestation for the hell of it since you didn't mention it.

Beastiality: most commonly practiced by women, more prevalent in Europe than the US. In the US, it is illegal, if for no other reason than lack of consent on the animal's part, I suppose. What does this have to do with gay people again?

Incest: not taboo in all cultures, also most common form is heterosexual incest (most common person is an uncle). This relates to gay marriage how?

Child molestation: the most vile of crimes against humanity, and also again most commonly occuring between adult males and female children. (68% in one study - I don't like to quote statistics without including the source material)

http://www.fightinghate.org/essay.htm

In all three cases, it seems heterosexuals have gay people beat by miles when it comes to sexual deviance. What again does any of this have to do with why allowing gay marriages will mark the end of civilization as we know it?

No doubt since you stand by those verses in the Bible, you also believe in killing small children: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:9); are in favour of cannibalism: "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee." (Deuteronomy 28:53); and believe in killing children when they are disobedient: "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son...bring him unto the elders of the city...and the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die." (Deuteronomy 21:1 Some people forget that the main teachings of Christianity sre to treat others as we would have them treat us and that God judges us, so we don't have to judge each other.

Denying the existence of God in an insistent, plaintive fashion is no different than badgering and bothering people to be saved. It's actually worse in my book, since the atheist is trying to take something away.

<-- Proud to be a Deist.

I guess it depends on your point of view David. I see it more as trying to help people take something back.

And this thread is about people trying to take something away using relgion as a justification. Does anything there strike you as ironic? I'm just giving opinions, not making constitutional ammendments.