Why do you guys still bash wwIIonliners?

You do realize that only 3 or 4 still play SL, out of the original 140?

Griefers have run the rest of us off, by spamming our island with political messages, or provoking us and then complaining to the Lindens when we defend ourselves.

It's just not a fun environment. The implimentation of the Outlands was probably flawed from the beginning. I hope that in the future it can be restructured successfully.

I posted an open letter on the outside of the Outlands wall. I'm leaving the game, but will check in on it ocassionally.

Adios,

Brentosh Leviathan

I think... by say why do you guys still bash, is over generalizing, many people have accepted the WW2 people into the community, however there are still a few that do.

Here is where the problem lies. It is not YOUR island. It is not YOUR wall. It is EVERYONE's Island and EVERYONE's Wall. I have just as much of a right to buy land in the outlands as you do. The outlands were not MADE for you, so, don't think and say that.

well, that wall is Linden land, and all signs have now been taken down. But when this game goes up next week we are going to still get more and more greifers, the WWIOLers aren't the only ones who get greifed.

Other outlanders have just as much right to shoot you until you leave. It is OUR island, because we claim it, and enforce it... granted, not so much anymore.

We kinda quit playing.

First off, Brentosh... you did not CLAIM anything! The Lindens gave the WW2OLers Jessie so that you can have a fully damage-enabled area to use your guns, and the other Outlands areas were set to optional damage-enabled. Don't claim superiority when you have no footing or knowledge of previous situations.

When the WW2OLers came en masse, it became a huge disruption to the REST of the population in SL. You have to learn that not everyone wants to play by your rules... you need to respect other people, because this comes down to one thing... respect.

Now there are a very few of those original 100 + people here because they came in thinking that this was just one big shoot-em-up just like WW2OL, but when they learned that this wasn't what they thought, they got bored and left. The ones who stayed saw the true possibilities and tools available and found their interest satiated here, which didn't always include shooting people.

Every military has rules of engagement, and state that you do not shoot unarmed innocents who are not posing a threat to your unit or equipment. I would believe shooting someone because they wanted to shop, and was not brandishing a weapon, would be an offense punishable to spending years in a military prison like Leavenworth. Peacetime regulations (which is what SL would be considered in at the moment, until a Linden makes a declaration of war between two groups/factions) also regulate that soldiers only fire in self defense.

Yes, being in the Outlands might mean you could get shot... before the WW2OLers came in, I had only been shot once in an Outlands sim, and that was because the person firing missed their target. Now, if that happened to me, don't you think that I had the right to ask who shot me? I will have more respect for the person that came up to me and said "Yeah... sorry" than the person who says "That's what you get for being in the Outlands (or Jessie)"

If you want to shoot people, fine... just don't shoot people indiscriminately just because you can, because that is what causes threads similar to this. If someone is building their house, don't shoot them because they aren't playing "your" game right now or might not even want to at all. Respect that choice, and people will have no problems.

I have had my problems with some of the WW2OLers, but they have been resolved, and although I might not see them a lot, at least we are cordial with each other and don't shoot each other while in a damage-enabled area... they respect my right to be in an area and not go around shooting people, and I respect them for having the restraint not to shoot random people just because it is a damage-enabled sim.

Just because someone enters Jessie for one reason or another does not automatically make them a target... if someone thinks that way, then they are being disrespectful, and should actually be on some other program like Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament 2003, Battlefield 1942, or even back in WW2OL, where those actions are quite acceptable in those programs.

And before you go off on some "you're a 'left wing' wuss that doesn't support military action", my father served during the Korean War, my brother-in-law was sent to Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm, and a good friend's father went over to Iraq... and I supported all of them (except my father... I wasn't born yet, but still respected him for doing his duty for his country during that time).

That's all I'm going to say right now... hopefully you take something out of this and grow as a person by learning that even though people have different views, you must try to respect ALL of them, and the people behind them.

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

^^^

You assume too much.

Heh, i think most of the WWIOLers got bored cause they ran out of money from buying so many guns from Lyra

That's the arrogant attitude which has driven most of us to dropping the game.

I bought a gun from Lyra. Good gun.

But, we've also modeled many of our own World War Two replicas. Among these are full sized tanks, anti-tank guns, and medium-ranged rockets.

My wwII Photography Gallery has received more than 300 votes in about one month's time. The wwIIonline shrine (which was vandalized yesterday), contains an enormous amount of wwIIonline memorabelia and forum signatures.

If you think the wwIIonliners were leeches to the Second Life community, you seriously need to re-evaluate the situation. In it's prime, the wwIIonline island was by far the most interesting place in the entire game.

Unfortunately, it has seen better days.

OK to be totally unbiased I tested the ww2ers today about 30mins b4 this post...

To start if its public land you DO NOT OWN IT.

Jessie was not for the ww2ers, it was a damage enabled area for people to do combat PERIOD. It was no ones.

Yes you could setup camp buy land and defend it but the pub land laft over is up for grabs. otherwise the lindens would have it claimed up.

And here is what I got from my test of the mentality of Jessie....

I will say a specific name here as its relavant. I was confronted by robo Rogers.

I will include some chat excerpts to show you why people have a negative attitude.

Ok I found some land that was PUB. Bought it and started building a tower (with guns included).

As I finished up I asked james Miller for help in testing it's reliability. As its scripted to autofire/auto aim at anyone not on a friend list that I can addd or remove names from on the fly.

Since the sim was empty I asked james over. He agreed to help. I set it to see him as a friend. As he got near, the sim became populated, So I told him to nevermind because there were too many people. Out of RESPECT I declined to test my massive gun tower on anyone not deserving. At this point James was near my tower, as I was trying to tell him to nevermind I was shot (one shot kill), which was upsetting, but hey I was in Jessie I expect to get shot. Heck I was surprised I was able to finish the tower with out getting shot.

Well I then teleported back and instant kill. Didnt even see anything on screen from Jessie. Again I teleported into Jessie, NP. But then of course I wished to retaliate at this point, So I flew to Stanford, Which is set NO DAMAGE!!.

I was shot at and caged, and repeadly shot at. Unacceptable here as I was in a safe zone. Since I was a bit upset and within shouting range of my guns, I turned them on. and well they are a bit on the short range and not as accurate as possable, they are effective.

Now for some chat as I was caged with robo taunting me lol:

(I won't change my words but will censor chat as needed for the forum, as at this point I was upset that I truely was trying to give a unbiased assessment for myself of the feel in Jessie and well I got my confimation of some of other people's opinions here)

btw Stanford is mature so lol here goes:

You: wtf is your deal dude?
robo rogers: remember jessie is fair game on anybody
You: no s#$%
You: does it look like im in jessie right now?
You: i suggest you remove this b4 i call a linden
robo rogers: lol i guess so
robo rogers: cry babies won't fit in jessie too well
You: too bad dude
robo rogers: rat
You: well this aint jessie where im at

robo rogers: isn't there a group you play with??
You: when i feel like it
You: i just wanted to test your group's integrity, since you guys want to be respected in the forums, so far you failed and made a bad mark on your group
robo rogers: hey i just don't like people who say they know the lindens or talk about ratting out
You: well if you break the rules thats your issue not mine
You: if im not in jessie I should not be shot at
You: or caged

Now for some IM's

Charlie Omega: just to let you know,you better build good shields, I am going to place my towers throughout that sim, you will now survive
Charlie Omega: not even
robo rogers: thats pretty funny we'll see what the rest of us think about that lol
Charlie Omega: go for it
robo rogers: not an area for an outsider to pick a fight
Charlie Omega: awe too bad
Charlie Omega: anything goes right?
Charlie Omega: lol double standards
Charlie Omega: besides for now the range I have it set at is small and accuracy is low, keep whineing and it will get tougher
Charlie Omega: definate rule breaker, hmmm i wonder how long you will be suspended

Just to confirm, I am not going to place these towers throughout the sim, But someone could if pravoked, I was just a bit T'd off atm and was testing his reactions.

I am sorry if this post breaks rules of any kind but, I think this needs to be brought out. As it will undoubtedly get worse as time goes on when this goes public.

There are going to be more challenges to deal with, and if not understood what is what there are going to be hard feelings.

Now Fen had a great suggestion in another thread, about 2 sims set for wars. I think this would definatly benifit the whole community, as the war likes can flock together, and creat warring teams and then have "their" sims to defend and fight.

edit: I forgot to add that while I was in Stanford I was being pushed into Jessie by this person, so as he could "send" me home.

So Charlie all you basicaly did was go to Jessie to test them. You were biased from the start please do not lie. What normal person would just go there to test. Its silly people like you that ruin this game. I am glad you got shot and now that I know you like to test people I will gladly test out any new firearm on you.

hehe... this sounds like fun.

War Games!

The only thing shady, is it sounds like he's setting his tower up in a neighboring non-damage server, to shoot into jessie.

I'm not sure about that, correct me if I'm wrong.

Charlie, if you got shot at... just shoot back.

There's nothing wrong with it. PvPers shooting eachother in Jessie has nothing to do with integrity.

Glad to have you playing PvP style.

Oh... one more thing.

Did you expect to be cordially greeted upon entering Jessie and placing gun towers? This is the outlands, of course it's going to be hostile.

Your test wasn't necessarily unbiased. But, it sounds like good PvP gameplay anyway.

Well you missed my point,

I was testing the boundries to see for myself what was going on, I took a rather extreme measure, but thats me. I don't do anything half arsed

No the tower is not in a safe zone. its in Jessie.

I didnt go seeking trouble, lol the tower was finished but turned off. I could leave it on all the time but it would make it no fun in jessie. As I can shout commands to the tower while I am in a safe zone. I can even set it up where I am across world and it tells me who is within range then I can turn it on from the comfort of my couch per say across world. But I didnt. Some scripting can be done in deadly manners that can leave room for little harm to the scriptor. That is one small point I was making.

But the big picture is I "I" wanted to form my own opinion instead of believing everyone else and falling on the bandwagon. I would think any self respecting mature adult would understand that. I like to have to opprotunity to form my own opinions. As this is a all out anything goes sim, well I did my anything goes just to see what happens. Its not my fault someone got too upset and decided to cross the line litterally and break the rules to try to retaliate.

Who broke the rules, and where?

I don't get it.

You built an offensive weapon in Jessie. People got mad (that should be expected). People shot at you (also expected), even though you were in a safe zone (Not illegal... just kinda pointless).

What point have you made, exactly?

This does bring up an important Outlands issue that needs to be addressed. There should be no physical boarder to the outlands for this very reason.

It should be teleport only, and at a fairly hefty fee.

How easy you misinterpret it to fit your needs,

You are not supposed to shoot at someone in a safe zone, let alone while the shooter is in the safe zone also, and not to mention pushing an av into a kill zone with your av or any other means, seems to me there was an issue similiar to this in EQ. Pushing other players into danger areas, and this was unacceptable and PATCHED OUT in that game.

Now if you shall read as you have, I named specifically who it was and the events as they were, take it as you may. My opinion is formed.

This just solidfies my agreeing opinion of most others, by his behaviour and your defending him here. Sorry you feel like you have to justify those who act in ways that are wrong in this manner.

Now that the test is over and I now due to my own opinion being made by personal interaction, choose not to associate with any of you, heck with the rates. I have no need to rate you negative nor desire.

So if whoever has my tower highly defended shall turn off the offensive artillery I will remove the tower. I could design a means to get in and remove it but I feel no need to waste any more time on the petiness that goes on in that sim.

NOT pointing my finger at anyone in particular with that just a bye seeya.

Why are people making a big deal about the PvP zones, anyway? There's no real reward or benefit to making a kill, and there's a mostly-negligable penalty if you are killed. Shooting everything that moves isn't necessary, nor is whining about it when you're attacked.

I've been through the Outlands a few times and no one's shot at me ever. Maybe I just don't make a good target.

Also, polarizing SL into "Outlands" and "non-Outlands" by making them two seperate states will only cause problems in the future.

you cant go into jessie and test a groups integrity that you know is here in SL for ONE REASON Lol. c'mon man haha, sounds to me charlie that you picked a fight fair and square and you had a great idea about the tower and turrets, i would like to see it completed. i too bought land in jessie last night and i exchanged a few rounds with some of the wwiiolers. it was FUN ! Also, i think the lindens are in the wrong with the banning of peeps, lemme quote SL as you enter the world for your very first time ... " Be whatever you want" well maybe you should change that to "Be ALMOST whatever you want", if you wanna fix this issue, find a way to make weapons unusable in no damage areas it cant be that hard. DAOC did it , Shadowbane did it and so did AO.
whats sad is the fact that once this "game" goes live, there will HUNDREDS of people far worse than the wwiiolers, i assure you, and when the lindens <corporate> see the money rolling in from monthly subscriptions, they arent gonna change it, maybe i am wrong but doubtful! i do agree every military has rules, my new pvp group has guidelines to follow , one being NO violence or slander is to be directed to any unarmed resident of SL at anytime, and i will enforce this to the fullest extent.
Ducking to avoid stone throwers,
Deanah Feaver

I think something that tells you who killed you needs to be added. So when people go out with a gun and just shoot random people from a distance they can't just get away with it. So the person who was shot can come looking for em. Or report it if its an abuse.

When you file an abuse report you have an option to include chat history. If there were such a notification I'm guessing it would show in the notification. If you are shot in a no damage area Im not sure.. would you also be notified if no damage is incurred? Im on the fence about this. In some ways it sounds like a good idea where in other ways it sounds like fuel to the fire.

Let's talk land ownership, and safe/unsafe areas.

Land ownership:
If you own the land, you can do what you please on it as long as it conforms with the community standards. Much like buying a real world house, I recommend researching the neighborhood and seeing if it is a place you want to live. The rules of Second Life are biased toward land owners, and land owners rights supercede the rights of those who are passing through.

Safe/Unsafe areas:
If the land is designated as safe, residents are held to a higher standard of behavior than if it is unsafe. You cannot "kill" people in unsafe areas, there is no health meter. The interpretation of the word "harassment" is much broader. There is a reasonable expectation for people to be able to merely go about their peaceful business without the harassment that may be expected in unsafe areas.
In unsafe areas, residents should expect to be bumped into, shot with foreign objects, tracked with turrets, and possibly annoyed by users who want to have a more unruly play style.

The line is very clearly drawn at the land ownership border, or at the sim border. Thus, turrets on Jessie tracking people on Clyde is a violation of community standards. As we have learned, a big buffer zone (currently designated by the ownership of land by Governor Linden) is a good idea, and will be used in future outland expansions.

A number of questions have come up with regards to abuse reports, and crime/punishment. The short answers to most of them have been as follows:
-Abuse reports are investigated very carefully before action is taken.
-We have suspended many people who have chosen to ignore the community standards that they agreed to when first connecting to Second Life.
-Some abuse reports were filled in areas where the standard of behavior was not violated, and nothing was done in that case as the reporter was in an unsafe area.

So the bottom line with all of this is:
While in safe areas, don't act like it is an extension of an unsafe area.
While in an unsafe area, be prepared, buy some weapons, get a clan and have some fun.
If anyone is violating the community standards, please use the abuse reporter.

Any questions? Hope this clears some things up.

-Peter

thank you Peter, that was very clear and prompt in reply. maybe we can all get along one day and just have fun as you said.
DF

Just to clarify, I wanted to "test" the waters in Jessie. I would have had fun if I wasn't pushed into Jessie from a safe zone sim just to get shot at. I am fully aware that Jessie is a kill zone. Why do you think my first and only build was a gun tower lol. Also my tower is in Jessie and only shoots within Jessie. unlike some others that I have noticed that shoot at people that fly close to Jessie.

The only issues I had trouble with were the pushing from a safe sim, the claim that Jessie was only for WW2 ers. And someone defending the actions of the one trying to push me into that sim just to kill/send me home. Thats really all. I expected to be shot at while in the sim lol. NP I firmly believe that one should not just go into that sim looking to get shot at, or go into that sim thinking that they shouldn't be shot at.

But targets should only be in that sim, not forced in and shot at.

Have fun, I may stop in from time to time with a bulseye between my eyes and a gun in hand

Lyra has never MADE a gun. Never. Never sold a gun either. Think you guys mean Yuniq.