AW comparison (was Graphics suck)

Howdy, Ama!

You're right - I wasn't terribly nice to Bob. To snotty remarks I respond with rough replies. I'm sure the seasoned folks here can handle it. Stuffiness receives no sweetness from me. If Bob does not understand that I mean nothing personal by it, then right now I offer my apologies.

Sorry, Bob. Nothing personal.

Ama, one of your assumptions about AW was correct: bad marketing. AW isn't really a game, so you won't see it advertised as such. In fact, in the last 5 or so years you won't have seen it advertised much at all. The people who own/run it can no longer afford to have advertising campaigns. They've not practiced very good business strategies and have piddled away most of the finances. Shame on them. However, it is still here, still works, and was just given a huge upgrade in performance and features. Huge. I'm not a betting man (I've not played your games yet - sorry ) but I'd say they may just stick around for another year or 10.

The user base has been increasing recently.

That you or Bob have never heard of it says nothing about what it is or what it can be. Can you disupte that basic fact?

If no one likes it or finds it interesting, fine. What floats your boat is what keeps your boat afloat, as they say. I happen to like it, and think some others might, and I don't mind taking a ration of sh*t for sticking it out there for people to look at. I'm not getting any cupie dolls out of the deal. If I see errors or misrepresentation, I may correct them. If I see grumpy people downing something they've got no clue about, I might grumble back at them.

There it is.

Thanks, Ama. Your opinion does indeed matter to me.

-J

Hello, Mac!



That is a very good idea.



If by promoting you mean, "And if you liked SL, you might also like..." then I'd say there's not even a shred of "secrecy" in my method. I think I've made my point clear, obvious, and upfront. So there it is. Does anyone have to wonder where I stand? I don't think so.

I don't see how it's not "germane," either. Furthermore, if discussions about other products are not allowed, or are frowned upon, I would think the moderators/proprietors would have stepped in by now.



Avatars do not pass through each other. Animated objects do not pass through avatars if they've been told to remain solid. Lights that turn on and off via command (the use of the word "script" is a misnomer, here) show up for everyone exactly the same if you do it correctly. These things have been true longer than two years.

The release of v3.4 brought about tons of feature enhancements. And while the Renderware engine may be dated, it is still possible to build things in AW that rival what can be done in SL graphically. Why? Because no matter which program you work with, you're still just building a series of prims with textures on them. And yet lighting is still better in AW (even one other fellow in this thread agrees) and has recently been improved even further.



Okie dokie, then. Well, I've never heard of it nor seen it, but I'll take your word for it. It is interesting that you are still reading the newsgroups of a product you seem to strongly disapprove of. Anyway, if it is possible to take objects out of the cache database (idx) in AW, then it is possible to do the same thing out of SL, because its cache operates under the same principles, and it's only a matter of time before someone does this. Already folks can steal the WAV files in SL. D&D Dogs comes to mind. There is even an inventory cache stored locally. The guy who manages to reverse engineer that is going to have a field day with SL. This is the sort of risk you run in any virtual world.



Brute-force zip cracking is relatively easy, but can take too long to be practical if the password is long enough and contains special characters. But this is getting silly, and there's a bigger point to make. Despite these things you've mentioned, I've still seen more complaints in the last month in SL about object theft than I've heard in AW in....years? And that's just from browsing the forums.



1. You don't need bots to synchronize things for every user. There are just some instances when it's a better idea to use a bot. You need to check back into it if you don't believe me - otherwise don't bother arguing the point.

2. You don't need to own a world to use a bot. You can use a bot anywhere bots are allowed, if you have permission to do so (and almost all public worlds give permission to do so).



Moot point - ISPs won't even run the world servers. You have to host them yourself or have someone else do it. There are companies devoted to hosting AW servers, OPs, and other services (like bots). If you yourself can run a world server, you can run a bot, too. Or hundreds of them. Bots don't have to be run on a server, though. They can run anywhere and they take up hardly any system resources. They are generally stand-alone programs. That's what makes them so versatile.



Boy, you really put me in my place, eh? I just use WINE in my UNIX flavors of choice. Works perfectly with AW and has for a long, long time. XelaG is one man doing the job of 10 men already, so I doubt he'd be up for the additional headache.

Mac users have ways to run AW, too, and I know of a couple people using them.

The world servers already work in UNIX environments natively as well as Windows. Bots can be developed for AW in most environments because the API has been ported to lots of platforms.



Considering 90% of your beef with AW centers around the PKs and the owners, and more specifically Rick Noll (ENZO), I find it hard to believe your involvement or interest in the politics was minimal. You have quite a lot to say about him, as well as the PKs. You even still read the newsgroups, which at this point are wholly political. You said you quit when the PKs came to be, which means you left for political reasons.

Sour grapes, they call it.

I personally don't care about the politics you've ranted about, and guess what? Without any politics, AW is actually a nice place to hang out. Hmmm!



And back to politics we go. Revisionist history? You said you left when the PKs came. It took a lot of time for the PKs to shape up, but they did. As you said, the GKs and PKs are both still around. So is AW. Something must be working out ok. I, too, thought AW would die out years ago but it simply hasn't. You can't believe AW has managed to stay alive, I bet, considering its turbulent history and ownership. Yet it has. Now THAT is staying power, huh?



The management sucks - if you pay attention to it. I choose not to, and it's as simple as that. If you own a world in AW, you govern it. If you do not, you are governed. This has always been obvious to me, and anyone else who has chosen the path of world ownership. When elections and "a whole host of other things" begin occuring in SL, we will begin to see some real strife in this program. More strife than we've already seen with Jessie walls, billboards, land ownership, stolen goods, taxes, stipends, ratings, and probably a ton of other things I'm missing.

I'm sorry you didn't have the kind of experience in AW that you wanted, Mac. It sucks when you let things get to you so much they ruin your experience.

My experience was/is different, and though a whole other set of politics definitely affected me, I certainly won't be blaming the program or its management team for any frustrations I've ever felt. What's the point?



No, I don't have any more info. You're right - no one here would be interested. I'm certainly not. You're the one who brought up ENZO, and you definitely did not have anything good to say about him. It's understandable, I suppose, but it doesn't sound like you were disappointed to me. It sounds like you were angry.

To each his own.

AW is a decent program, and worth a look if you like the sort of environment/freedom/experience SL has to offer. Let's let folks determine that for themselves.

Am I shamelessly promoting AW? Sure, I guess I am. However, there's nothing tangible I'm getting out of the deal. Unlike SL, AW doesn't have a referral program, or a ratings system, or any other "sign up a friend" type of perk. The only thing I gain is the pleasure of sharing something other folks may like.

And feel free to continue stomping on it for whatever reason. What was that reason again?

Thanks! This is fun.

-J

Hello Justice!
hehe



You read way to much into my comment. I haven't been involved with a forum thread where AW came up before, hence there has been no reason to mention my former use of that product. Lots of people know I used it, I just don't happen to have mentioned it in the forums before (that I can recall). Wasn't accusing you or anyone else (specifically) of anything. Just raising the possibility.

You misread my post (or I expressed myself poorly) on a couple of issues, I hate to leave such things hanging:



I was a Gatekeeper. When the PKs were introduced we were invited to switch if we wanted to. I, and several other quit Gatekeepers instead because even that organization was being changed from its original mission of HELPING new users to a new mission of policing the entry world. There was really no reason not to merge the two groups other than the heads of the two groups didn't get along too well. You also imply that you think I quit AW at that time, I just quit the GK organization. I remained a user for a long time, hoping for things to get better, and IMO they never did.

Yes I find it hard to believe that they are still around. They operate on a shoestring. The owners probably made some money on the IPO. Millions exchanged hands and only the VCs and stockholders lost out in the end (I was neither). Um, so what?

You quoted me, but then edited the quote. Never a good idea. But I DID compliment ENZO as being a good artist. He was apparently a likable guy in person, just not particularly outgoing. It was the OTHER one (who's name I couldn't think of at the time) that people said they didn't like. He went by the on-line name of Cryonics (or something like that) but was rarely on-line under that name after the buy-out. I think his last name was McCormick (sp?) and in a classic newsgroup post he explained why he banned a particular user: The user was hanging out in the default world when Cryonics signed on to give a demo to his mother for the purpose of borrowing money from her to buy the company. The poor fellow used a cuss word and apparently almost ruined the deal. I thought the whole thing was hilarious!

As to whether my disappointment is anger.... uh, sure. I'm angry at Intel for coming out with a nice affordable line of digital cameras that I recommended to many people and then discontinuing the line a year later. I'm angry at Microsoft for making second rate software and charging first rate prices for it. I don't think of anger as a character flaw though. If more people got angry, and stayed angry at companies that put out bad products there would be fewer bad products put out. I'm a capitalist, and I guess an angry capitalist at that!!

As to the rest of your post, its responses to my responses to your responses. I think I've said everything I have to say. Look me up in world if you want to chat about it.

Howdy, Mac!

Yes, I did misunderstand some of what you stated, and whether the miscommunications were on my part or yours isn't important. It's a little of both. What is important is that you clarified, and I now better understand what you meant. Thanks.

You're referring to J.P. McCormick. He's Cryonics, and Rick Noll is ENZO. We can just switch the names around. I thought you were referring to ENZO all this time. Too many pronouns, my friend. Neither guy is particularly mature, however.

Anger is fine - in fact, I personally think anger is a gift in many circumstances. I just wanted you to be clear that that's what you actually felt - not just disappointed. You stated you were merely disappointed, but it sounded more serious than that to me.

Thanks for the offer to look you up in world and chat about it. I don't make it in much, but I might take you up on that someday.

Cheers!

-J

Is it probably not true but I heard a rumor the Lindens were discussing taxing extra long postings...........
Actually --terrific posts ...Sometimes with a wee bit of lemon attached but nonethless I found it interesting reading about aw-sl comparisons.

Ewww, I'm in BIG BIG trouble. Maybe I should join posters anonymous.