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The Full Bright Feature I'm So Excited!

Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-16-2005 05:49
The Forest Tree traveled to Preview last night and invoked the Full Bright feature. It was amazing! During the day, all the faces were evenly lit with no regard to the sun's orientation. Alpha buzzing was minimal without all those shifting shadows. At night, the tree was visible as though it were floodlighted. That may not be a common practice around the planet. We light large pretty trees down here; but then, we don't wear shoes.

A couple of pics are attached so you can see. The trees on the right are normal; the ones on the left are "lit." What I didn't have time to figure out last night was the LSL command to toggle the setting on an object. Yeah I bellyache about APIs until y'all are blue in the face; But I know that LL wouldn't add a feature like this and not include an LSL hook. They might be a bit flakey about some things; but this is a real nobrainer with any competent development crew.

I'll report back here when I've discovered it.
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Ushuaia Tokugawa
Nobody of Consequence
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 268
09-16-2005 06:12
llSetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_FULLBRIGHT, ALL_SIDES, TRUE]);
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Marcos Fonzarelli
You are not Marcos
Join date: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 748
09-16-2005 08:11
Yeah this will be a really nice feature. Yay!
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
09-16-2005 08:12
I can finally turn back on local lighting with less fear!
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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
09-16-2005 08:14
Hopefully this will be swich off'able Khamon?

I'm not a huge fan of spectral glowing trees...
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-16-2005 08:33
Hiro, this effect doesn't require local lighting. We see shaded faces whether we have lighting on or off. This feature simply shades every face on an object evenly so they appear to be lit.

Yes Doc the feature will be optional so that people can light a tree or not depending on their individual preference. I've already added the button to the Forest Tree although I will have to rename it. GLOW is inappropriate because the object doesn't actually glow in the sense that it lights anything around it (see the photo). It's not radiant light, but the other way around.
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-16-2005 08:36
From: Ushuaia Tokugawa
llSetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_FULLBRIGHT, ALL_SIDES, TRUE]);

Thank you so much you scripting guru you! You just made my day.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-16-2005 08:42
wow!! Those look beautiful Khamon!! I can't wait! :D
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
09-16-2005 08:42
Make the trees glow durring the day to simulate light shining THROUGH the leaves, but turn it off at night. :)
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
09-16-2005 08:42
Does it seem counterintuitive to anyone else to have this under TEXTURE instead of material? Everyone is trained to set material to light (UGH) to make it "full brightness". I'd recommend the following:

(1) Put "full bright" under Material as "Light (Full Brightness)"
(2) Change "Light" to be "Light (Ray Casting Source)"

Change all current light materials grid-wide from "Light (Ray Casting Source)" to "Light (Full Brightness)", as I believe WAY over 50% of objects set to "Light" merely wish the "Full Bright" effect, and not to create horrid, client-side lag.

Then let people who have a real need for light objects change the material back to "Light (Ray Casting Source)".

This would allow us to turn local lighting back on without fear. Also, create a pop up when someone tries to set an object to "Light (Ray Casting Source)" saying, "Light sources create a significant amount of lag for people with Local Lighting on. Unless you wish this to be a light source, it is highly recommended that you set the material to be Light (Full Brightness)." with an option to "Not show this message again."

Do those minor changes, and I'd actually turn Local Lighting back on! :-)

-Flip
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-16-2005 08:47
From: FlipperPA Peregrine
Does it seem counterintuitive to anyone else to have this under TEXTURE instead of material? Everyone is trained to set material to light (UGH) to make it "full brightness". I'd recommend the following:

(1) Put "full bright" under Material as "Light (Full Brightness)"
(2) Change "Light" to be "Light (Ray Casting Source)"

Change all current light materials grid-wide from "Light (Ray Casting Source)" to "Light (Full Brightness)", as I believe WAY over 50% of objects set to "Light" merely wish the "Full Bright" effect, and not to create horrid, client-side lag.

Then let people who have a real need for light objects change the material back to "Light (Ray Casting Source)".

This would allow us to turn local lighting back on without fear. Also, create a pop up when someone tries to set an object to "Light (Ray Casting Source)" saying, "Light sources create a significant amount of lag for people with Local Lighting on. Unless you wish this to be a light source, it is highly recommended that you set the material to be Light (Full Brightness)." with an option to "Not show this message again."

Do those minor changes, and I'd actually turn Local Lighting back on! :-)

I wholly concur.

Thanks Pen /waves

Good idea Tiger. I'll think about some options, other than toggling on and off, such as "lit during day only" and "lit at night only."
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
09-16-2005 08:50
I had a look, and concluded that this effect was maybe not new at all, but merely the same as setting "material" to "light".

Am I wrong (I hope so) ?
Can anyone explain the difference, and how it is detectable if both are set ?

Is it that "full bright" doesn't glow at night? I assumed it would, and didn't try.
Matthias Zander
...me?
Join date: 2 May 2004
Posts: 109
09-16-2005 09:11
From: Ellie Edo
I had a look, and concluded that this effect was maybe not new at all, but merely the same as setting "material" to "light".

Am I wrong (I hope so) ?
Can anyone explain the difference, and how it is detectable if both are set ?

Is it that "full bright" doesn't glow at night? I assumed it would, and didn't try.


From what I understand, full bright doesn't become a light source in and of itself, thus cutting down the lag for those who have local lighting set to on :cool:
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
09-16-2005 09:27
Oh, great idea Khamon! Although I guess light rays should really only be cast from dusk until down for the sake of lag any way. I mean, can anyone see light rays that are cast when SL's sun is out?

-Flip
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-16-2005 09:32
From: Matthias Zander
From what I understand, full bright doesn't become a light source in and of itself, thus cutting down the lag for those who have local lighting set to on :cool:


When I played with the Brightness on the preview, that's the main thing I wondered about was the lag.

Will this be less laggy than having an object set to Light.
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
09-16-2005 09:37
From: Khamon Fate
Hiro, this effect doesn't require local lighting.

Yes, sorry - I wasn't clear enough.

Now that this is enabled, people will use this instead of making things "light" object substances.

Since light substanced objects were a heavy load on the video card, and many people used them with reckless abandon, many had turned off local lighting rendering.

Now people can use this feature to replace the light substanced objects, and I can turn on my local lighting rendering again and not have to deal with so many bad uses of it :)
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
09-16-2005 09:40
From: Jonquille Noir
When I played with the Brightness on the preview, that's the main thing I wondered about was the lag.

Will this be less laggy than having an object set to Light.


Yes, this should create no more lag than having it set as wood, metal, or any of the other "non-light" materials. The reason the lag was created was because light objects cast light. This causes the Second Life viewer to have to calculate "rays" and how they are cast, as the object becomes a light source.

Too see the full effect, turn on local lighting, and restart SL. Then go to DEBUG --> RENDER --> INFO DISPLAYS --> LIGHT TRACE.

You'll see just how much math this causes SL to perform.

Try the same in preview, create a few objects, set to light. Then change them to wood and full bright. Ta-da! No more light rays to grind your viewer to a halt. :-)

Regards,

-Flip
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-16-2005 09:46
Thank gods. My store can actually be seen from space because of all the light objects, but it was the only way I could get things visible at night. (And end the 10+ messages a day about my store being dark.)

I'll spend the first day of the update just changing Light to Bright.


From: FlipperPA Peregrine
Yes, this should create no more lag than having it set as wood, metal, or any of the other "non-light" materials. The reason the lag was created was because light objects cast light. This causes the Second Life viewer to have to calculate "rays" and how they are cast, as the object becomes a light source.

Too see the full effect, turn on local lighting, and restart SL. Then go to DEBUG --> RENDER --> INFO DISPLAYS --> LIGHT TRACE.

You'll see just how much math this causes SL to perform.

Try the same in preview, create a few objects, set to light. Then change them to wood and full bright. Ta-da! No more light rays to grind your viewer to a halt. :-)

Regards,

-Flip
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-16-2005 09:58
From: Jonquille Noir
I'll spend the first day of the update just changing Light to Bright.

Be careful you don't violate any Hasbro trademarks Jonq. Ha ha ha that was for Jarod. It seems that bright should reduce some lag because it makes all the surfaces on an object, if applied to every face, the same brightness do that the card doesn't have to calculate various shadings per face as it doesn when the object is not lit. Essentially, the card can assume that all surfaces are facing the sun directly and give them all the same effect.

The coolest effect will be windows that will seem to have lights shining through them at night without scattering light in all directions.
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Jessica Qin
Wo & Shade, Importers
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 161
09-16-2005 10:31
So like is this effectively the same as making a prim of Light material and using that trick of dropping in a script to set side 0 to black, so it doesn't 'radiate' -- only now we won't need to drop in a script and set a side to black?

If so -- about damn time :)

Jess
FlipperPA Peregrine
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Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
09-17-2005 06:24
From: Jessica Qin
So like is this effectively the same as making a prim of Light material and using that trick of dropping in a script to set side 0 to black, so it doesn't 'radiate' -- only now we won't need to drop in a script and set a side to black?

If so -- about damn time :)

Jess


Jessica, while that trick using the script should reduce lag, it never really did. The theory is that something set to total black shouldn't cast any light. The theory is correct, however, in the whacky world of SL, total black still casts light rays. Those scripts do nothing to reduce lag. See the above test method involving ray tracing to verify these findings. :-)

-Flip
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
09-17-2005 07:21
Flip: I think making it a material is a bad idea.

Right now - we can specify fullbright on individual faces, whereas material affects the whole object. :)

-Adam
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Aru Opel
Registered User
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 36
09-17-2005 07:22
From: FlipperPA Peregrine
Does it seem counterintuitive to anyone else to have this under TEXTURE instead of material? Everyone is trained to set material to light (UGH) to make it "full brightness". I'd recommend the following:

(1) Put "full bright" under Material as "Light (Full Brightness)"
(2) Change "Light" to be "Light (Ray Casting Source)"


Why not just "Light Source" for things as they are now and "Lit" for the new setting. One implies the source of light, the other being something that light is being shown on?
Roseann Flora
/wrist
Join date: 7 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,058
09-17-2005 07:53
Oh cool thanks for posting!
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Jessica Qin
Wo & Shade, Importers
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 161
09-17-2005 07:53
From: FlipperPA Peregrine
Jessica, while that trick using the script should reduce lag, it never really did. The theory is that something set to total black shouldn't cast any light. The theory is correct, however, in the whacky world of SL, total black still casts light rays. Those scripts do nothing to reduce lag. See the above test method involving ray tracing to verify these findings. :-)

Thanks Flip, I stand corrected -- I could swear I'd read somewhere that it did, but in light of your correction, I've done some research and yes, it appears that it was all a sham :( Thanks for illuminating me with your radiant wisdom :)

Jess
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