1.2 Event Support

What is the different between a "Mentor Event" and a normal event? Why do Mentor events get more $?

I think event holders should get more $ for hosting events. They aren't just "glue". Holding events is hard work and takes a lot of skill that should be rewarded, IMO, with much more than $250L.

Mentor Events and Linden Classes are held on Linden own land, so we won't be getting the dwell that someone running a regular event at home would be getting.

Also, Mentor events are held by SL residents in place of a Linden doing it....

This is something that I think is a very bad idea. Not only reducing the bonus to 250, but making 2 classes of SL citizens, the ones who get 250 for doing an event, and the 'preferred and favored' class getting 500 for the same amount of work.

Very bad.

I've hosted numerous events in Rizal as a Sports Mentor. These events used to be run totaly by the Lindens. In my oppinion the Lindens time is better spent writing the next update to SL than playing in it.

So as a Mentor I am effectively doing a job that they used to do and they reward me for doing it... is that not fair?


The unfair part could be argued that people hosting their own events for their own fun an amusement used to get paid the same as Mentors....

(Ducks for cover.)

Oh stop with this class of citizen stuff. Again, if you are an instructor or mentor, you have to hold your events on their land, so you do not get any dwell bonuses, which have been increased. As the dwell bonus also affects your ability to receive RL money, as shown by how the developer incentives were given out, I would say that people holding normal events would be the higher class of citizen in that regard, if you are going to go there. If they had kept it the same, people hosting their own events on their property would be making $500 and dwell.

I agree Jellin, except with your definition of the 2 classes. I would say

'The mentor' who only gets paid L$500 but gets no dwell or publicity/advertising for their own property

'Favoured Citizen' Who gets L$250 plus whatever RL cash for the dwell bonus and ppl visit them more because they know where to find them

As far as i know there is nothing stopping any of you from joining the mentors. Mentors are just regular residents like you and I. They have have opted to join the mentor group and assist people in getting to know the game. If you want to be a mentor just IM Char Linden. Unlike non-mentors, mentors are required to host events and help others learn the game. Look at it like this. If you had a christmas party at your house you would pay for it but if you were the one organising the office christmas party would you do it out of your own pocket or have the job pay? Mentoring is not a group. its a job

There's always room for more mentors (Insert cheezy recruitment music here)

$250 seems a little low. How much dwell is usually earned from a half hour event with 30 people? But I guess it encourages everyone to become a mentor.

I disagree with this policy as well. Basically the Lindens are saying to us that your efforts are worthless and what you do is without value unless you can connive to get people to stand on your own particular piece of land.

Non-mentor events require at least as much effort and creativity to host and are often considerably more fun to attend. They should be rewarded at least as much as mentors. (I am saying this as a mentor, too.) Dwell is not likely to ever make up the difference, because it just doesn't work as a method to assign value. I'm sorry to see it take over as the sole means of getting ahead.

Would it be a good compromise if a non-mentor event coordinator get L$500 if they hold the event on Linden owned land, and L$250 if they hold it in their own land? If they don't have land or land worth visiting they can use Linden land, maybe advertisement isn't as important so they opt for the Linden land owned venue.

I'm surprised we will still be paid even this much for events, especially considering our reduced expenses. Let's look at some numbers.

Right now the base stipend for everyone is $1,000 and hosting an event pays $500 (let's ignore dwell). So for one event you get half the base weekly stipend.

In 1.2 the base stipend is $50 or $500 depending on your account. Let's say you have a premium account and get $500 a week base. You get $250 for hosting an event as a non-mentor; that's half the base weekly stipend again. Same value as currently and remember, land costs less, no taxes, etc.

But let's say you're a lowly peon who gets only $50 a week stipend. You get $250 for hosting an event, wow, that's like getting $5,000 for hosting one now.

So either you get the same value as now or you get a greater proportional value. Either way we're losing nothing.

Summary: Higher is better
1.1 - $500 event / $1,000 base = 0.5

1.2 - $250 event / $500 base = 0.5
or
1.2 - $250 event / $50 base = 5

I find this funny that people are complaining that Mentors and Instructors get paid twice as much L$ in 1.2 than others who are not hosting Mentor events.

First off... Char went through a lot just so that Mentors and Instructors got paid PERIOD!!! That's right... we use to do it for free.

Mentor and Instructors offer their time to host events for the Lindens, instead of hosting their own events and possibly getting dwell bonuses.

Mentors and Instructors are somewhat limited in the types of events that they can run, where non-Mentor events can be just about anything... you're not going to see a Mentor-run Erotic Poetry contest at Stage 4, now will you?

If a resident wants to schedule an event and get support, they just have to type up the event in the calendar and Events portion of the forums and send a copy of that to the support e-mail address, then send a report of how many people were there afterwards (may not be needed now because of dwell... the system keeps track, I guess).

Mentors and Instructors have to TRACK DOWN THE GROUP'S LINDEN REP (for example, Char for Mentors), then banter back and forth as to what slots are available that happens to fit the Mentor/Instructor's availability and doesn't interfere in other Mentor/Instructor's events, then report the attendance to the rep so they can get paid... this is on top of posting the Mentor/Instructor event in the calendar and Events forum board.

Let's say that the conversion rate of L$ to real $ is L$1,000 = $1 real... that means that a Mentor or instructor would have to host two events to gain $1 in real currency. One hour's time and the hassle to track down certain Lindens to schedule these events for $1 real money... that is less than the US minimum wage. If anything, I would say use that real money as a credit to my subscription costs and charge me less.

More freedom of event types + scheduling freedom + opportunity to gain extra money from dwell > limited events + hassle of scheduling + no dwell bonus opportunity. In MMO terms, Mentors and Instructors are nerfed in comparison to other residents when it comes to events. The extra L$ is just a way for Linden Labs to reward the people willing to nerf themselves in this way. Remember, for every Mentor/Instructor event scheduled, these people could just schedule their own event instead and possibly earn more.

With this new pricing structure, LL made it cheaper for people to subscribe, and no other MMO company has offered real money for being successful inworld... yet people still complain about some perceived advantage.

Mentors and Instructors help newcomers so that the inworld Lindens can handle more pressing matters (griefers, crashes, and bugs being a couple of examples). They give back to the community by sacrificing their time (where they could be hosting their own original events or concentrating on a new build), yet they are getting a virtual slap in the face by some people that I remember when they themselves came into the world and asked me the same newbie questions that I have heard for 8 months at Mentor events.

The only other options are Linden Labs hiring more Lindens and use them only for teaching/mentoring, but that would bring the pricing structure back up to what it was before and still charge for land owned just to cover the costs of the extra employees... heck, if they can get over that "hiring non-California residents" thing, they can hire my happy backside in a New York (or in my case, Ohio) minute... or that Mentors get the same $250 as other residents, but charge for attendance to help make up for the loss of that extra $250 and dwell bonuses (which Mentors/Instructors cannot do because they are on Linden owned land).

Think of it this way:

Lindens: Direct employees of Linden Labs
Mentors/Instructors: Sub-contractors... limited use, paid a bit more by LL with inworld $ to compensate for their limited use.
Normal event holders: Freelancers... more freedom, get less initial money, but much more opportunity to earn more money only limited my their imagination and work ethic.

I know that people like Candie Apple have hosted two events per day, every day except weekends... as a Mentor, the most events I hosted was three events in a WEEK... guess what? Candie made more than I would under this new structure (L$2,500 directly plus dwell over a flat L$1,500)... she put in more time and effort, she gets rewarded more.

That extra L$250 is an incentive to even have Mentor events under this new structure... and incentive to compensate for the sacrifice of dwell bonuses and giving back to the SL community by helping newcomers; a small price to pay to make Second Life a much more newcomer friendly place.

Thank you for your time, and I appologize if you're tired from reading all of this.

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

jarod and i will continue hosting tech talk *end shameless plug* whether we get paid for it or not. our goal is to offer the service to residents.

the fact that the lindens pay us at all simply lets us know that they like what we're doing. that's enough to encourage us to continue.

Mentors absolutely deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, but so do other types of event runners. Events are one of the best things about SL (socially at least) and they come in all types, not just ones that ask you to come over and dwell.

What I'd like is for all events to continue to get rewarded for the value they give, and so remain at $500 prize and $500 grant to the event runner.

I don't want to see "dwell" take over as the sole means of valuing things here. And as far as the comparison goes, yes, the value of $500 MAY increase, but only if all you want to do is buy trinkets and dresses.

But put that up against the thousands of $US being offered up for Developer Credits, based on dwell. This amounts to MILLIONS of $L being injected every week, which can pay for land taxes like nothing else can.

So personally I think it's only fair to continue to reward event runners like before, since IMO they offer at least as much benefit to the community.

Edit: When I say land taxes, I mean paying the monthly rates for land allocation, which despite the "no more land taxes, ever" statement actually amounts to a tax nearly 7X what it was before.

The event runners that host on their land get dwell plus L$250 grant for running the event (and most likely the L$500 prize money too)... the extra L$250 for Mentors/Instructors is an incentive to host on Linden property and a "thank you" for helping out Linden Labs. If it stayed the same, what incentive would there be for Mentors to continue, because the last time that I checked mathematically, L$500 < L$500 + dwell bonuses. Dwell is not the only means, but it has become a major issue because of the introduction of receiving real money for dwell and events.



Again, since a lot of this real money is based on dwell, what incentive do Mentors/Instructors have if all event holders get the same amount of L$? The dwell bonus and opportunity to make real money is an overweighing factor in NOT having events on Linden land.

There was a suggestion that you only get the extra L$250 if an event is hosted on Linden owned land to make up for loss of dwell rating potential... I like that.



But how do Mentors and Instructors get to earn that chance to pay for those land taxes? They would have to host events on their own land ON TOP of hosting events at Linden owned land... ten Mentor/Instructor events would still not equal ten non-Linden owned land events. Add on top of that the fact that Mentor/Instructor events can be no more than an hour max (mainly for classes, since Mentor events are 30 minutes only)... someone can host a 3 hour party at their home every day (no actual event, just "Big party at my place" can make money to help alleviate the real money costs of their land, but Mentors cannot.

Going by that logic, it might be better for me to just let my account expire, buy a $9.95 account, become a Mentor and go about my business in Second Life as normal... the only thing that I would be losing is land that I don't visit that often anymore... not that big of a sacrifice, to tell you the truth.

Dwell is a bonus that other event holders get that Mentors and Instructors do not... why shouldn't they get a little more L$ in exchange for loss of dwell. Your idea of keeping it the same still hurts Mentors and Instructors... you're basically still nerfing them... this doesn't balance the situation, just keeps it skewed in favor of non Mentor / non-Instructor event holders. I can see an argument if it was L$250 to L$1000 in favor of Mentors/Instructors because dwell couldn't make up for it.

Ananda, I respect you, but your arguments haven't proven anything against Mentors and Instructors getting more... if anything, they have only strengthened my position in favor of Mentors/Instructors getting more L$ (sorry... debate club award-winning form coming back).

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

I need to clarify something... when I mentioned Candie Apple earlier, I did not mean that she hosts 10 events in a week, that is against the rules because the limit is 7 per week, Candie doesn't even host that many events per week, and some events, like her lottery, are completely non profit and she doesn't collect any Linden funding for.

I inadvertently overexaggerated the number of events that she hosts in an attempt to create a statistical model in my argument, and in return, real feelings were hurt because of it

Because of this unfortunate misinterpretation, I have lost a very good friend over a stupid argument about money, real or imaginary. This might be the one peril that Linden Labs could have never forseen in their new pricing structure and reward system.

This will be my last post as Alexis Fairchild, cancelling my account and will be taking a break from SL... I may return someday, but right now I need to get my head clear. To everyone that I met inworld, it was great meeting all of you, and I wish you all the best... you will always be in my heart.

Bye bye forever,
Alexis

Awwwww, Alexis! Just let things settle for a day or two and I'm sure cooler heads will prevail. I'd hate to see you leave over something like this. I'm sure you intended no harm, and your points are well taken. Please reconsider after a good night's sleep.

I'm not sure why anyone would begrudge Candie or anyone else for hosting 5 events a week or 50. If she has the motivation and the energy why would any of us do anything but applaud her hard work?

And as for mentors, I agree they should be paid more than regular resident event holders. Seems only fair to me. But this seems like an argument that should wait until we all see how things turn out in 1.2 for a while.

Really? You would host events and not get paid? Or do you mean you now get a weekly $L paycheck for being a mentor?

And Alexis, please don't leave. People who host events are not simply the "glue" of SL, they are the HERO's of SL and we need more event hosters. I just think they should get more $

Mentors and instructors are only paid the 500 Lindenbucks for events and classes.

I agree with Alexis that this is a very important point.

Because LL have choosen to give away RL money based on dwell, any activity which involves dwell will have much more ultimate value than those that don't.

The Law of Unintended Consequences is a strange thing, but by trying to hand out wads of cash to its players, LL have rather undermined the Instructors and Mentors.

And then when you consider the decision to stop counting trial user ratings towards your bonus (always an important reward for teaching/mentoring), it begins to look like the Instructors/Mentors are now considered the second class citizens, not the other way round. Just look at the dwindling number of instructors, if you don't believe me.

p.s. Alexis, I *really* hope you don't leave the game, you would be much missed if you did.

I think you are missing my point here. I am not trying to attack Mentors. I am a Mentor! I like hosting those events.

My point is that it's unfair to make other types of event holders take a pay cut. I don't hold my other events on my own land, so dwell misses me. I think it's unfair to assume that event holders will automatically get dwell that amounts to anything.

So, if you feel Mentors deserve more for providing the service they do, why not give them more?

If I had my druthers, dwell would go the way of the voting stations and ratings (into retirement). Someone could spend half an hour exploring what I've helped build, and not ever record any dwell because it is spread over a dozen lots.

I like the idea of rewarding Mentors more. I'm just frustrated that money is being taken away from event runners and such a huge amount of value is being put only on the ability to get others to stand still for 5 minutes.

That was going to be my last post... guess I'm a liar now . I did get a PM from the person I hurt, who said that we are still friends... and the only thing that went through my mind was "Yeah, but it can never be the same"

I just need to post a few things:

Jack, when the Mentor and Resident Instructor programs started, they did not get paid for their events... it was because of Char lobbying for the Mentors and Instructors that it was decided that Mentors and Instructors should get paid for their events.

Ananda... I might have been harsh in my tone, but I was trying to say that the benefits of hosting your own events in 1.2 overweigh the benefits of hosting Mentor events, even with the drop in Linden support money.

To all of you that wish that I don't leave... I was so upset last night that after I posted, I cancelled my account. I do not know if it could even be reversed at this point, even with my permission (maybe a Linden could pop in and answer that). I do appreciate all of your kind words.

So, unless it is reversible, Alexis Fairchild the avatar will be gone from Second Life... the person behind Alexis will be in Second Life again, most likely in a different avatar that's all.

The ratio will probably be equal-to or worse-than 2000:1 since that's the ratio you can trade in L$ for monthly subscription fees. So really it's less than or equal to 25 cents per 30 minute class...

I agree that the proposed system is a fair balance for all the reasons stated.

Alexis, I understood that all the cancelled accounts (excluding trial accounts) will be reactivated at at least the Basic level, equivalent to the one-time $9.95 for lifetime, no-land access. So if you wanted to use the 'Alexis' account again, I believe you could.

Hope we see you around again, under whatever identity you choose.