Suspensions for 'use of alt account...'

I was perusing the police blotter a few minutes ago, and noticed that several of the current violations listed were for griefing with alternate accounts. One incident occurred at a wedding and another in a WA.

It got me wondering; how does LL determine whether or not the account belongs to the same owner as another account or if it's another person living in the same house?

I am all for dealing with folks who do their dirty work with alts, I am curious however, as to what criteria is necessary to label someone officially an "alt".

I would suspect thru the ip and billing

Yes, but how would they determine that it was not another member of that household? I am sure families or roomies sometimes use the same credit card for multiple people who wish to play.

The IP would be the same for most folks sharing a connection. I was indirectly IP banned once from a NWN server I was very active on because my roomie's son, who lived here at the time, was misbehaving on that same server.

true... then there must be anothere way

that's the penalty of living with a nimrod who wants to cause trouble in an online game...

I trust my girlfriend not to start griefing people, but hey, she freaks when she has a clothing mishap and shows her naked non-skinned av in a PG sim....

I have to agree.

I would guess they look at the account logins and chat history and figure it out. The Lindens dont really have to have proof so they can ban based on their gut feeling.

If let my sister use my credit card to buy a skirt, I'm still the one responsible for the payment. If there's a problem with making the payment, that's for me and my sister to fight about -- not the clothing store's.

Same with the phone bill in my name, and the utility bill in my roommate's name. It's not for the phone or utility companies to worry about our private agreements over our shares of the bills. They simply go to the person who accepted responsibility for the account.

Similarly, if I let my roommate or sister use my credit card to set up an account in SL, why shouldn't I just as easily be the one responsible for their actions within SL?

I don't see that SL has any imperative to demonstrate the individuality of TOS/CS violators within an array of alt accounts under the same credit card name and number.

Beautiful example! And I personally agree. Many, *many*, "games" out there do not let you share accounts. They "make" you buy a whole other copy of the game and an account key in order to play. My hubby and I have faced this for years playing in online worlds. We can use the same credit card, but there is a special software key that has to be entered that gives us each our own unique identity. Since SL is downloaded instead of bought, it could be harder to implement this feature.

So to me, the fact that SL allows for users to share accounts with spouses, sig others, partners, children (of age), etc., is a very nice luxury. I'd say though it is then on the shoulders of the "account holder" to be reponsible for what happens to that "account".

I agree to a point. It's multiple accounts though. Not just an "account" even though the same card is being used. LL has more or less taken that position with regard to alts. I will dig up some links to support that, just not tonite.

The main reason I posted this was because I do monitor the blotter, and this is the first time I have seen this many alt accounts punished..

As far a the IP being banned, even though there are truly multiple people holding legit accounts, I have mixed feelings. In my example about NWN, it took a week for me to get it straightened out. In that case there was no CC involved, just an IP.

I doubt most folks would want to be punished if a member of their group, even an informal group, fucked up.

I agree with people who say that this is an acceptable penalty for sharing an account with a griefer. If you registered the account with your CC at your address, it means you better trust that person.

If that person abuses the account, I don't see any issue with both accounts being suspended. You can always:

a) Have a few kind words with the griefer in your household.
b) then write to or call the Lindens and explain things out and get your own account reinstated.

The Lindens should NOT initially concern themselves with who the accounts belong to in the household. They should make sure that the world remains a good place to be in first and foremost. All IMO, of course. I'd be happy to assume responsiblity for members of my household (although my kids are still way too young for the game so that won't happen for a while).

Wendel

Two words:

Thank god!

It's taken a long time to implement, but it about time.

Three cheers for Mommy and Daddy Linden!

The Linden staff also looks at chat logs to determine what happened in questionable circumstances.

Then I hope my friends and family behave. I have signed on a few friends that live around me. They all would not have the same IP address though except for one. But what I choose to spend my money on should be my choice. Two accounts I have set up are for my niece and nephew away at college and they are certainly old enough to play and yet I used my credit card to pay for their play, too. Also, I can sign on and we can visit and talk better with out long distance charges. It is great.

I can see how people have alts to cause problems. Those people could ruin the family fun for me, if more drastic measures are taken.

Give Vestalia some chocolate. ISPs and Internet community admins have no ability to tell who is actually behind that IP number. Chat logs don't work because people lie. Some people lie VERY well. And from a punitive standpoint, if a Mom's kid is acting badly in a game, then one way to get Mom to pay more attention is to ban her IP. If it's someone playing dual-personality games (we called them "Sybils" in my sysop days) then we don't want them anyway, regardless of which personality they feel like today. If the abuse is bad enough, and/or repeated often enough, complaints to that person's ISP can actually cost them their internet service.

Chat logs are only useful for determining the extent of a harrassment or scam, not for trying to tell who is who.

Cindy

What is "sysop?"

coco

System Operator. I helped run a Compuserve forum back in the text-based day, and sysops (or wizops) had admin powers (the Lindens are the sysops of SL). They could grant access or deny it, ban/kick, flag, etc. Mostly though, it was just grunt work keeping upload files organized.

The term probably goes back to Usenet days but it's still applied today on more current internet boards, like this one. See also Webopedia

Cindy

Downloading the software is not a barrier at all.

There are a variety of games now where you can buy the keys online, and enter them into the downloaded software.

LL is somewhat behind the times when it comes to accounts. For instance, the name of your avatar is 2/3 of your login credentials, both for the game, and for the website.

If your account is breached, what exactly can you do? Can you entirely change your credentials?

No. To do so entirely, you would have to cancel your account. There is no other way.

You can not log in without your avatar name. And that name can be put on a list and published anywhere. Same for the SL website. This is a fact beyond debate.

They should be different to prevent a variety of potential hack techniques. Save the "nothing is possible we are totally safe" routine. There is a reason many online communities set themselves up this way.

Note: I would have a hell of a lot less problem with the practice of building avatar name lists if your avatar name was not your login credentials, both for the game, and teh SL website. If you choose to set yourself up that way, fine. But you can't say there is no risk to putting it all under a name that can be published anywhere and everywhere!

Also, you have no unique account key that gives you access to the software. It is only your account name (which is now readily published anywhere and everywhere thank you LL), and a password (for which there is no modern policy).

People would say, "what if I want to install somewhere else". Then you go to their website, enter your non-game-login site credentials, and look up your key. Just as you'd edit your account info or anything else. Download the software, and there you go.

FFXI uses this notion of buying keys online, and I thought it was good thinking. You can't download the software, but I think that's just a matter of size. Anarchy Online also allows downloading of the entire client, and purchasing of keys online.

LL has a lot of rethinking to do regarding their policies of security and privacy. At a minimum, they need to clarify their current practices, allowances, and what is unacceptable. Basically, at this time, it seems that the wording of the policy allows nothing (which is typical), but that they are just staying hands off, and not even commenting on specific issues, to see where the chips may fall. And, undoubtedly, how they may take advtantage of it.

And of course, I can't post these days without stating, none of my questions regarding my concerns have been responded to by LL. NONE Of them, i.e., the practice of extracing user account names and in-world keys from their software files, release of this info to the general public, and so forth.

The Lindens have responded to the key issue. They've taken the position that the key is public information.

I do understand what you are saying Nolan. Hmm, Ok.. Lets say JoSchmo Cannon has an account. His account Log in is Talking Heads + Password. JoSchmo has a wife, her account Log in is Listening Ears + Password. But neither had to register a software "key" (usually seen on the back of games) in order to have each account. They just downloaded the software, plopped down the one credit card number and started playing. Two accounts, but impossible to distinguish between the two.

Now, had they had to *buy* the software, and enter a new software *key* (or download the software but *buy* a special key for each account), they would still be able to use the same credit card, but their accounts could be valid as two seperate accounts. And then if JoSchmo messed up (because it is always the guys fault you know ), his wife could still continue to play under her very seperate account.

Because LL chose not to go that latter route, they are in a bind it seems when it comes to how to handle the situation of alts sometimes being legitimatly *different* people. Even the way other "games" do it, it is not fail safe. As a person could simply buy another copy of the game and log in again. But then of course that person would be out of pocket money wise.

And I have seen cases were IPs were banned and it was the family's only computer. Never a great thing to see happen, but then I guess it falls along the lines of "peer pressure is often the best pressure there is when it comes to making someone fly right". Or something like that from the school of thought that if you punish the people *around* the wrong doer, those people will eventually *make* the wrong doer fly straight or have nothing to do with them.

At any rate, it's a hard call it seems no matter how you look at it. At the same time, right now the only way to combat "alt abuse" in SL does seem to be the way LL is starting to head.

Stating, in a forum thread, that "a key is public info" is not a response to my questions. It is also not my key issue at all. Pun intended.

For example; is it acceptable to extract the info from SL software files? Yes, or no? If so, what other files may I extract info from? What other info may I extract?

Does LL release all this info from their ownership into the true public domain (again there is nothing "public" about SL at all, it is entirely a privately owned mechanism entirely controlled by SL, it's not the United States Town Hall), and decline to accept any responsibility for any manner in which it is used?

The proof of it not being public is very simple. Can SL ban you for compiling these lists? Can they create policy that forbids it?

The answer is yes. If the info was truly public, they could not. Because they would have no right to. It would be the equivalent of banning you for republishing all the addresses on your street.

The info can ONLY be obtained from one place; the SL environment. Which is entirely privately owned. LL is not even public in the wall street sense. "Public" is something the "pro" community has latched onto, and imho, gives the "con" community a point of attack, because it is clearly being misused.

If they do in fact release this info, may I compile more detailed lists, with regularly updated info from XML RPC enabled scanners, emails, and so forth, tracking when and where people are at key locations within the SL grid, and sell it? Should a market of competitive avatar tracking and reporting be fostered? Is this in the interests of the future of the common residents of LL, or just the vendors and other info compiler types focused on marketing and impressions? SL has traditionally balked at enabling widespread marketing from external organizations. This appears to be forming a contradiction.

It is the answers to these questions that make a great many online communities say "no. You may not. That is unintended use of the software, and of course we can not release ourselves from this responsibility".

I also again point out that there is no technical reason LL can't make such a list available, or a Name2Key service. Why haven't they, if so many residents, as so many claim, have "needed" it for so long?

Thank you plz play again.

Della, providing the family members you've signed up don't turn out to be griefers, I don't think you have a thing to worry about.

Not to mention that account bannings are taken very seriously by LL (perhaps too seriously).

However, if - unbeknownst to you - your niece or nephew became a chronic griefer, and your account where to be banned as a result, your blame should fall squarely on the family member performing the abuse, instead of other people with alts.

Signing up someone's account on your credit card is an act of trust, and an endorsement on your part of their maturity.

i look at it this way... perhaps the griefer shot at someone or what have you and a linden took care of it...then they came on as their "alt" looked the same acted the same griefed the same...its gotta be the same person..could be like that.. however what i find funnier is the description of another one:

yeah i would say a jilted lover or just some lamer there but still i was laughin really hard at the description!

*ahem* A Nimrod?