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Should freedom of speech in SL forums be free only if the majority agrees?

blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 08:35
Simple poll.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
04-26-2005 08:57
Might as well be

"yes, I do enjoy love kittens to death"

"no, I am a hate-filled babybeater"

:D

LF
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
04-26-2005 08:57
lol..you so need better choices. So our choices are, "It's only great for some people" or "It's great as long as it's not really free speech"??

Personally I vote for:

3. No censorship whatsoever unless RL info is being divulged.
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David Lamoreaux

Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
MrsJakal Suavage
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,434
04-26-2005 09:00
From: David Valentino
lol..you so need better choices. So are choices are, "It's only great for some people" or "It's great as long as it's not really free speech"??

Personally I vote for:

3. No censorship whatsoever unless RL info is being divulged.


Second that motion! :p
Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
04-26-2005 09:04
Careful not to confuse free speech with irreverence for fellow players.

The former should be encouraged, and we should know better about the latter.
Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
04-26-2005 09:08
From: David Valentino
lol..you so need better choices. So our choices are, "It's only great for some people" or "It's great as long as it's not really free speech"??

Personally I vote for:

3. No censorship whatsoever unless RL info is being divulged.

Mrs. J - Second
I third your motion David...err I guess I'm actually voting for it.

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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
04-26-2005 09:09
What a bullshit, biased poll. And what a shock :p
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Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:11
This is not biased at all.

My point is, just because there a bunch of people in these forums who disagree with what I'm trying to say, does that mean my ability to say it should be curtailed?

I believe that Aimee is trying to support that thesis precisely, which is why I posted this poll.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
04-26-2005 09:12
Actually, I vote 'yes' here. This is a forum paid for and operated by those who are offering an outlet for productive and community-oriented exchange. They are perfectly within their rights to ban anyone who consistantly demonstrates themselves unable to contribute in a positive manner to those ends. Indeed, they are best served by doing so.

Count me as a 'yes', despite the obvious 'push poll' mentality which created the question.

edit: Love how he is changing the wording after you have already voted. So much for ethics.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:13
There ya go, nicely proving my point.

There is a mentality here that unless you toe the party line, your voice should be squelched.

So .. biased, Cristiano? Think again.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
04-26-2005 09:17
From: blaze Spinnaker
There ya go, nicely proving my point.

There is a mentality here that unless you toe the party line, your voice should be squelched.

So .. biased, Cristiano? Think again.


Don't be more of an idiot than you must, Blaze. The people who post here do not decide what the 'party line' is, Linden Labs does.... and yes, if you don't like it, tough cookies, quit.

Them's the rules. Deal with it.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
04-26-2005 09:17
I agree with Cienna. No one has a "right" to post here, so trying to paint it as a free speech issue is unrealistic and biased. Forum participation is a priviledge and not a constitutionally protected "freedom." Gardeners who weed their flower beds aren't trampling the rights of weeds.
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
04-26-2005 09:18
From: blaze Spinnaker
This is not biased at all.

My point is, just because there a bunch of people in these forums who disagree with what I'm trying to say, does that mean my ability to say it should be curtailed?

I believe that Aimee is trying to support that thesis precisely, which is why I posted this poll.


I believe you are making things about things I never said. You are trying to scare people by creating conjecture about a doom-and-gloom future. If you cannot argue with anything I have said, then you pretend I said something else and you argue with THAT. This is called a straw man fallacy and SL users will not fall for it.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:20
You voted yes that if the majority disagrees then the speech of the minority should be curtailed.

It didn't say anything about "lindenlabs".

Perhaps you should be a bit more cautious about throwing the term 'idiot' around like that.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:22
Hey, Aimee, please correct me if I am wrong. I could be.

However, you

a) put up a poll to find out what the majority thought about the forums
b) implied that if they did think there was a problem we should try to 'solve' it

Other than curtailing my free speech, what other possible solutions might there be? Everyone already has ignore capability.

Perhaps I'm rushing to a judgement and you had something else in mind.. I'd definitely be interested to hear what that might be.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
04-26-2005 09:22
From: blaze Spinnaker
There ya go, nicely proving my point.

There is a mentality here that unless you toe the party line, your voice should be squelched.

So .. biased, Cristiano? Think again.


It is very much biased, Blaze. The fact that you think it isn't is a joke. Here would be a non-biased poll:

Should unpopular speech be silenced?

Yes
No

The way you have written it, you talk about freedom of speech out of one side of your mouth, but because you dislike personal attacks, you want those squelched. That is not freedom of speech - thus your answers are biased. In order to answer no to the question of should unpopular thought be silenced, you had to agree to personal attacks should be. Thus, your poll is biased. No way around that one Blaze.
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Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:25
Hey, woah, that's a much better poll than mine.

I'm going to repost
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
04-26-2005 09:25
From: blaze Spinnaker
Hey, Aimee, please correct me if I am wrong. I could be.

However, you

a) put up a poll to find out what the majority thought about the forums
b) implied that if they did think there was a problem we should try to 'solve' it

Other than curtailing my free speech, what other possible solutions might there be? Everyone already has ignore capability.

Perhaps I'm rushing to a judgement and you had something else in mind.. I'd definitely be interested to hear what that might be.


I can think of six off the top of my head. None of which involve curtailing free speech. And I will post them when I am satisfied that my poll has collected enough data.
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
04-26-2005 09:27
From: blaze Spinnaker
You voted yes that if the majority disagrees then the speech of the minority should be curtailed.

It didn't say anything about "lindenlabs".

Perhaps you should be a bit more cautious about throwing the term 'idiot' around like that.


You think you're much smarter than you actually are, blaze. This is the thing that stymies your attempts at being clever or coy every, single time.

As for the application of the term 'idiot' -- when the shoe fits, I throw it. In my opinion, you, sir, are definitely one.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
04-26-2005 09:28
From: blaze Spinnaker
Perhaps you should be a bit more cautious about throwing the term 'idiot' around like that.

From the forum guidlines:"please note language, such as "fraud, liar, cheater, griefer, troller, jerk, scam artist" etc is strongly discouraged, but will not be removed."

It's a shame your skin isn't as thick as you think that of those you denigrate on a daily basis should be.

P.S., there is no such thing as free speech on a privately held forum or in a privately held game. This is not a street corner in the Village.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:28
I'm actually kinda dumb

.. but that doesn't give you the right!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
04-26-2005 09:32
From: blaze Spinnaker
I'm actually kinda dumb

.. but that doesn't give you the right!


Blaze,

You play the role beautifully, but you are certainly not dumb. You just use that as an affectation after whatever button pushing you have done blows up in your face. When you are not just trying to be contrary, you have shown incredible intelligence in certain threads. Unfortunately, the more you align yourself with parroting Prokofy (even while Prokofy insults you too), the more you paint yourself with the same broad brush. Well played though, especially the indignance. Bravo!
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Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-26-2005 09:40
From: blaze Spinnaker
This is not biased at all.

My point is, just because there a bunch of people in these forums who disagree with what I'm trying to say, does that mean my ability to say it should be curtailed?

I believe that Aimee is trying to support that thesis precisely, which is why I posted this poll.



Actually ... its more valuable for certain members of this forum communtiy to read that other poll, and possibly consider how their rants and rhetoric about how the sky is falling are infringing on OTHER member's of the forum communities rights to have a reasonably free exchange of ideas and information.
Ace Cassidy
Resident Bohemian
Join date: 5 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,228
04-26-2005 09:49
From: blaze Spinnaker
This is not biased at all.


I'm curious... Were you born a moron, or did your mother drop you on your head as a baby?

Those choices are as apropos as the choices that are offered by your poll.

- Ace
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
04-26-2005 09:53
Ace,

the poll is not biased at all.

It seems biased because the choice should be clearly obvious.

And yet the community has spoken - they are clearly upset by the volume and nature of the opinions that Prok and I hold.

So they are attempting by whatever manner they can to either shun us or to show their collective displeasure into getting us to shut up. Because they are the majority and we are the minority.

All I can say, is they won. I have no desire to lose my SL privileges or risk accounts that I have which are in good standing with the community. I will squelch any further attempts to disrupt the atmospher of agreement here.

So, the fact is, whether or not you voted yes or no.. the fact is the minority voice (me) is silencing itself because of clear threats from the majority voice.

So no. The poll is not biased in anyway.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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