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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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03-16-2006 14:10
That's like saying "this streaming video on the internet is broken, it won't play on my computer" when in fact its the computer that is malfunctioning. The video is fine, it simply can not play on broken equipment. In this same way, Consciousness has difficulty 'playing' through a damaged brain. -Ghoti Can I quote you on this? That's a brilliant analogy. _____________________
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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03-16-2006 14:51
That's like saying the Bible is evidence that God exists. No, that's like saying there are documented cases to study (= experimental data to analyse). Show me how the cells, molecules, and atoms in someone's brain transmit information upon their death, to some sort of place where it is stored for a while, and how it ends up in a random child's brain again. Not to mention that it's physically impossible for a baby to form new memories, since its brain has not matured yet. Everything would have to be implanted between the 1st and 2nd year of age, when the brain starts gaining the ability to store memories. Information can be thought of as a physical organisation of particle-like entities in different dimensions, outside our conventional reach. That's how  _____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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03-16-2006 15:04
If belief is a matter of preference and I were to choose an afterlife to believe in. I would choose reincarnation. However, most people who do believe in some afterlife do not believe it's a matter of preference, and I'm not likely to choose to belief in anything.
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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03-16-2006 15:11
If belief is a matter of preference and I were to choose an afterlife to believe in. I would choose reincarnation. However, most people who do believe in some afterlife do not believe it's a matter of preference, and I'm not likely to choose to belief in anything. I'd choose Valhalla, all that drinking, feasting etc, and a good fight when Ragnarock rolls by sounds like fun. _____________________
I have no signature,
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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03-16-2006 15:44
Can I quote you on this? That's a brilliant analogy. Yes.  -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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03-16-2006 16:20
It is a very good analogy
 . It also opens up lots of possibilities such as, a universal conciousness, only appearing as multiple because of the hole characteristics it's channeled through ._____________________
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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03-16-2006 16:37
It is a very good analogy . It also opens up lots of possibilities such as, a universal conciousness, only appearing as multiple because of the hole characteristics it's channeled through .Thanks. And exactly. That's sorta what I said in a post higher up in this thread. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-16-2006 16:39
No, that's like saying there are documented cases to study (= experimental data to analyse). There are 'documented cases to study' that would be "proof" of christianity, by your standards of proof... stigmata, near-death experiences, etc. However, none of that PROVES christianity. It suggests it, perhaps, if that's how your inclined to believe, but it doesn't prove it - A person who doesn't belive in it will not see christianity in those things, nor see them as proof of it. Same for any 'documented cases to study' of reincarnation. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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03-16-2006 16:47
Same for any 'documented cases to study' Yep. Perception creates reality. Someone ingrained in scientific thinking will never be convinced of spiritual truths (were they contradict their science). Someone ingrained in spiritual thinking will never be convinced of scientific truths (were they contradict their spirituality). Its why we go around and around in circles here. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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03-16-2006 16:58
Yep. Perception creates reality. Someone ingrained in scientific thinking will never be convinced of spiritual truths (were they contradict their science). Someone ingrained in spiritual thinking will never be convinced of scientific truths (were they contradict their spirituality). Its why we go around and around in circles here. -Ghoti Scientist here . As such I'm very tempted to debate that perception creates reality, but it would only serve to prove I do fall on the scientist side, what degree perception might alter reality, and my keen grasp of semantics ._____________________
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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03-17-2006 06:06
Yep. Perception creates reality. -Ghoti That's why we created these things called logic, philosophy, mathematics, and science, to gradually create a vision of reality that approaches universal validity, verifiability, and independence from one's perception and subjectivity. That is precisely why it is not rational to believe in fantasist notions of deities and spirituality. You cannot determine how valid they are, because they are not verifiable, so it's normally best ascribed to an error of perception. _____________________
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Toni Bentham
M2 Fashion Editor
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 560
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03-17-2006 06:41
No, that's like saying there are documented cases to study (= experimental data to analyse). Except it's not experimental data, either, because it can't be independently reproduced. It's not hard data at all, it's a pretty good story. _____________________
Register today at SLorums.net for great discussions, good features, and a friendly staff - all you'd expect from a good forums site!
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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03-17-2006 07:45
That's why we created these things called logic, philosophy, mathematics, and science, to gradually create a vision of reality that approaches universal validity, verifiability, and independence from one's perception and subjectivity. That is precisely why it is not rational to believe in fantasist notions of deities and spirituality. You cannot determine how valid they are, because they are not verifiable, so it's normally best ascribed to an error of perception. Two of my favorite stories about our ideas dictating our reality - the first about the takeover by Christianity and the second about the takeover by science: The Mists of Avalon and The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. _____________________
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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03-17-2006 07:47
That's like saying "this streaming video on the internet is broken, it won't play on my computer" No - it isn't. Because the same video can be played on other computers. Consciousness is personal to our physical being. The supposition that we are surrounded by some sort of universal consciousness that is channeled through our brains seems to me to be totally baseless. _____________________
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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03-17-2006 08:17
No - it isn't. Because the same video can be played on other computers. Consciousness is personal to our physical being. Exactly so. The video will certainly play on other, undamaged equipment. IMO you're wrong though, Consciousness is universal. I don't expect you to understand. The supposition that we are surrounded by some sort of universal consciousness that is channeled through our brains seems to me to be totally baseless. This is because (I'm assuming) you view the world from a materialist perspective. I see the world from more of a monistic idealist perspective. I'm not going to argue with any of you. I can never convince you of my point of view, just as you will never convince me of yours. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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03-17-2006 09:49
Two of my favorite stories about our ideas dictating our reality - the first about the takeover by Christianity and the second about the takeover by science: The Mists of Avalon and The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Thanks to House, I understand why that second one is funny... the first one was about christianity? I barely remember reading it but I think I missed that... probably another funny ?_____________________
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-17-2006 10:05
It is actually..especially the part about the goddess being seen in another form as she always has been (while looking to a statue of the virgin mary)
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Woozie Gumshoe
Registered User
Join date: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 33
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reincarnation
03-17-2006 14:00
According to silvia brown world renownd pyschic we don't reincarnate into animals,only humans. and we have had many lives and some of us will come back to live again while
others will choose not to come back. Since god made us all we are all one and the same all linked in the cosmic plan of god. If we had no soul no spirit what would be the point of emotions such as guilt,hate,love, jealousy etc etc. Would have no need for remorse either if our final destination is absolute nothingness. From what silvia says too (I keep an open mind about this) we are all 30 years old on the other side and we have different features then what we have now on earth. All our organs are also on the opposite side of our body (she has no idea why either).and i have to agree about faith without proof...........for the hardcore christians how do they know god even exists (even a bible is no proof since it was written by man) or that god is even a man. |
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Toni Bentham
M2 Fashion Editor
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 560
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03-17-2006 14:54
world renownd pyschic What, in Superstitions Monthly? _____________________
Register today at SLorums.net for great discussions, good features, and a friendly staff - all you'd expect from a good forums site!
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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03-18-2006 02:48
Except it's not experimental data, either, because it can't be independently reproduced. It's not hard data at all, it's a pretty good story. Data is never reproduceable, only results can be. _____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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