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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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02-02-2006 06:49
From: Siro Mfume Then obviously in your mind it is the fault of the dead person in each case of friendly fire, no matter the circumstances. Absolutely not! Splendid example of false dillema, however! Not since the ID debate have I seen such an example!
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Siro Mfume
XD
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 747
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02-02-2006 07:42
From: Reitsuki Kojima Absolutely not!
Splendid example of false dillema, however! Not since the ID debate have I seen such an example! It IS rather like the ID debate, I offer information and rather than address the information you are attacking the form of offering. I'm not really sorry if you don't agree with presentation. The presentation, correct or not, does not affect the fact that we are shooting friendlies. Whether it's our fault or not should be irrelevant to whether or not our government says 'oops our bad' or something in the way of diplomacy. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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02-02-2006 07:46
From: Siro Mfume It IS rather like the ID debate, I offer information and rather than address the information you are attacking the form of offering. You didn't present information. You said I felt any friendly fire was the fault of the victim, which is either wrong or a lie, depending on how cheritable I'm feeling. Nothing more, nothing less. There really was no other way to address that comment. You claimed I thought something. You were absolutely, 100% wrong. Beyond "no", what more do I need to address of that? From: Siro Mfume I'm not really sorry if you don't agree with presentation. The presentation, correct or not, does not affect the fact that we are shooting friendlies. Which happens in military situations. It's regretable, but it happens. From: Siro Mfume Whether it's our fault or not should be irrelevant to whether or not our government says 'oops our bad' or something in the way of diplomacy. My contention, which you disagree with, is that the soldiers acted appropriatly. We expressed condolence for the loss of the soldier, but saying "oops, our bad" places the blame in a place where I do not personally feel it belongs.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
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02-02-2006 20:10
From: Dianne Mechanique I find this shocking.
An Accidental discharge could *kill* someone right? but it's a big deal to the average soldier only because they cold lose pay?
The idea that there is not a single policy on something like that, that every soldier has to follow is just mind boggling to me. It's the stuff that friendly fire incidents are made of.
It also brings to mind the recent British High Commands criticism of the American Army as basically "unprofessional." Letting area or unit commanders just decide if they feel it's okay to not have the safety on is really lax IMO.
What other policies (on which peoples very lives may be in the balance) does a part-time soldier from who knows where get to decide? Remember lots of those guys in Iraq, even the unit commanders, have never seen action before. Armies should be about discipline and rules. Well, the reason it is a big deal is not the official punishment, which by the way is not the only thing that happens to a person that has an accidental discharge, but I won't go into that. Accidental discharges should never kill a person if the people are trained right. Your muzzle is never ever pointed at something friendly, and I don't think people really understand what I mean by severely disciplined when people do things wrong, but once again I don't want to get into that. On the second comment, the unit commander was not the one to decide if the safety would be on. It was that way for the entire base. Accidental discharges almost never happened. The few times a muzzle was pointed at somebody or the finger was in the trigger well a person learned the hard way not to do it. In four years, I only know about two accidental discharges, and I wasn't near either one. An accidental discharge is not killing someone. They aren't going to throw you in jail for some dirt getting struck with one bullet. Now as for being unproffesional, I agree with you that in my opinion the U.S. military is very unprofessional. I think it is unprofessional for completely different reasons, but discussing that will get me so pissed off that I'd rather not get into it right now. Now shooting a friendly convoy is different than an accidental discharge. My point is not that an accidental discharge is only bad because it loses you pay, and I'm a bit off subject. Just on my tiny little comment, I don't think it makes a difference if you teach people not to have their finger on the trigger or teach them to have the safety on. Either way, the gun will never go off if the person is doing what they are supposed to. |
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MadamG Zagato
means business
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,402
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02-02-2006 21:02
From: Strife Onizuka US declares war on Canada (ok i'm exagerating  ) I could use some more land. JK |