Torture… how far should we go?
|
|
Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
|
12-21-2005 07:59
From: Shadow Keegan This is how I see it, if we have a known terrorist in our hands and he has information on how to stop this attack; I say skin him alive if we have to, here is a better way to look at it if we could have stopped 9-11 like this would we? Would people rather have many lives lost for this one that hates our guts anyways? To me this is letting them win, If we had known about the nuclear attack and did nothing we might lose NY or the white house all together, to me that is worth more then one life Then you dont mind the enemy doing the same thing to you right? The thing is tha there is no good or bad in these situations, "terrorist" is just a word used to diabolise actions agains a country, putting the enemy in the "they are bad" and you in the "we are good" hopefully we dont see the reality of the terrorism acts made by the US army in irak , for example for stopping selling nuclear weapon compodents, sure, France is one of the main producers of an essential part for nuclear warhead detonators, should we stop selling them to USA?
_____________________
 tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
|
|
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
|
12-21-2005 08:09
From: Kyrah Abattoir France is one of the main producers of an essential part for nuclear warhead detonators, should we stop selling them to USA? Yes
_____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
|
|
Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
|
12-21-2005 08:46
From: Kyrah Abattoir Then you dont mind the enemy doing the same thing to you right? The thing is tha there is no good or bad in these situations, "terrorist" is just a word used to diabolise actions agains a country, putting the enemy in the "they are bad" and you in the "we are good"
hopefully we dont see the reality of the terrorism acts made by the US army in irak , for example
for stopping selling nuclear weapon compodents, sure, France is one of the main producers of an essential part for nuclear warhead detonators, should we stop selling them to USA? Oh, you are French... that explains it.
_____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -
|
|
Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
|
12-21-2005 08:48
From: Billy Grace Oh, you are French... that explains it. That explains what?
_____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen
Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant
|
|
Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
|
12-21-2005 08:54
From: Joy Honey That explains what? It! Thought I was clear the first time. 
_____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -
|
|
Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
|
12-21-2005 08:55
From: Billy Grace It! Thought I was clear the first time.  
_____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen
Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant
|
|
Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
|
12-21-2005 08:56
_____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -
|
|
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
|
12-21-2005 12:25
From: Billy Grace how far should we go to get the information?
Being that the government could come to your house and arrest you for suspicous 'terrorist' activities, real or not - and not notify your family or anyone that you've been taken into custody, how far would YOU want them to go if it were you they'd just snatched up? |
|
Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
|
12-21-2005 12:43
From: Juro Kothari Let me ask it this way, Billy:
Being that the government could come to your house and arrest you for suspicous 'terrorist' activities, real or not - and not notify your family or anyone that you've been taken into custody, how far would YOU want them to go if it were you they'd just snatched up? Perhaps you should read the thread Juro, I agree with Chip and Ulrika. As hard as it to believe all republicans do not agree on every issue.
_____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -
|
|
Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
|
12-21-2005 13:27
From: Travis Lambert
Here's my take on it, Billy....
Under the scenerio you outlined, I could see where it might make logical sense for officials in the government to order torture in that sort of situation.
And when they're done extracting the information, the individuals responsible should still be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I understand extenuating circumstances come up. Sometimes one has to make a sacrifice for the greater good. But legislating it ahead of time so its 'okay' is a slippery slope I'm just not comfortable with.
If lives are truly at stake, and a situation comes up that is so incredibly critical that it warrants actually torturing someone -- surely that's worth going to prison for 20 years for to protect the freedoms all of us hold dear, isn't it?
From: Billy Grace This position should be rethought. It is either ok to torture without limits or not. If it is ok to torture under the scenario as you state, why in the world should we toss someone in jail? This issue should be thought out ahead of time and the letter of the law should be followed. hehe - sorry to be late to the party: I caught your response just now I don't think its as black or white as simply being ok to torture without limits or not. I'll offer that under an extremely unlikely scenerio like you originally outlined, it might make logical sense to torture. My concern is in the slippery slope. I'd want enough of a deterrant in place (jail time) that makes its use such an extraordinary measure, that its only actually used in extraordinary situations. If, after the fact, the torture indeed proved to save a city from destruction - that's where a presidential pardon could come into play. Having it legally sanctioned ahead of time so it can be used in 'maybe' type scenerios seems to me to invite the posibility of mistakes and abuse, which is unacceptable to me. It wasn't that long ago that the mere suggestion that Americans would actually torture a prisoner would be met with hearty laughter. Frankly, it absolutely amazes me that we, as Americans - are even having this discussion. Wow, how much our world has changed.
_____________________
------------------ The ShelterThe Shelter is a non-profit recreation center for new residents, and supporters of new residents. Our goal is to provide a positive & supportive social environment for those looking for one in our overwhelming world.
|
|
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
|
12-21-2005 16:56
From: Billy Grace Perhaps you should read the thread Juro, I agree with Chip and Ulrika. As hard as it to believe all republicans do not agree on every issue.
Noone agrees on everything Billy, so I have no doubt that Republicans do not agree on all issues. We are all individuals, afterall.
|
|
PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
|
12-23-2005 02:30
BTW: One of this weeks - Headline news - ( http://www.dagensps.se/article.aspx?articleID=14293&categID=239): President Bush har accepterat att krigsfångar inte får utsättas för tortyr. Fin kille. I resten av världen har tortyr mot krigsfångar varit förbjuden enligt Tredje Genevekonventionen sedan 1929. ”President Bush have now - accepted that war prisoners are not allowed to torture. A nice guy. In the rest of the world have torture to prisoners of war been forbidden since the Geneva convention since 1929.” Have a nice Holiday - to ALL of you... IF you have spare money - send some (OR ALL) to an organisation that help the poor children in the world.. or an organisation that fight for humanity.. Tina |
