Ignorance ?= Lie

Agreed. I didn't see you in that list? With all that military history in your family what caused you not to serve, assuming you didn't?

I thought you were testing my theory again. This one didn't last 5 posts

Speaking as a local politician I would have to say 'no'.

The party system means that sometimes you are put in a position of having to support something you are not entirely happy with, but fortunately the way things are set up in my party means that if you are *really* not happy, you can abstain or even speak against it without sanction.

In my experience I have never known any of the politicians in my political group to lie, and I have been in office for ten years. However, I have to say, when it comes to members of the public, the lies come thick and fast. Many is the time you investigate an issue which sounds quite appalling, and when you start to uncover the facts you find it is nothing like what has been presented to you.

Unfortunately many people are liars, whether they are politicians or not.

Shortly after 9/11, I remember hearing Bush claim that the attack was due to Saddam Hussein. That was the moment I lost any residual respect I might have had for him.

Bush never said anything about Saddam being involved in 9/11. You were lied to.

Haha, what is he going to get impeached for, "having the NSA do their job and listen to conversations between known terrorists in other countries and the people they talk to in the US"? The hippies have been dreaming about impeachment since Bush got elected. They have to dream that because they don't know how to win elections anymore now that the US has to worry about security.

The Democrats will most likely be losing seats in Congress in 06. Iraq is getting itself together and we'll have a bunch of troops out of there. Even if they somehow pick up enough seats to have a majority, which is basically impossible, Bush won't be impeached.

This is the same way the stupid left treated Reagan while he was president. People on the left just don't have the ability to see the big picture ever, it seems. I think it has something to do with intelligence.

Yeah, we all know what a stellar track record they have for not making mistakes. That must be why there are infants and dead people on the no-fly and terrorist watch lists. That must be why the CIA is investigating several cases of mistaken rendition. Nothing like kidnapping an innocent person and sending them to a foreign country for interrogation and torture. Oops! Our bad! "Known terrorists" eh? Known by who? By what standard of evidence? By your logic I guess that any damn thing is acceptable as long as you affix a "known terrorist links" to the end of it. Do they issue you some kind of armband for such blind loyalty?

I see, so you think the government should check with you first on everything they do? "Hey Chip, in your opinion, do you think this guy is a terrorist?" Then, if you give the OK, they can listen to his phone calls to the US.

People that don't trust the US government at all are always going to be whining about anything the government does behind the scenes. In your mind, you think Bush has a secret team of intelligence people that are like robots and he tells them to spy on his political opponents, as if such a thing is necessary when your political opponents are idiots like John Kerry.

I can't wait until the US is invaded. It's been way too long.

I saw him saying it.

I live in DC. I'm surrounded by the people who work in our government and intelligence services. They're my neighbors. They're the people in line at the grocery store. They're driving next to me on the beltline. Guess what. They're just as stupid and inept as the rest of the country. That jackass you work with... you know the one... the guy you can't believe was ingelligent enough to survive past his twenties, yet somehow he managed to become your supervisor... yeah, that guy. There are a thousand more just like him working in all branches of government. Do I think the government is evil? No. I think they're just like any other cross-section of the US population. A few genuinely gifted souls in a sea of the mediocre and painfully stupid. I'd like as many checks and balances between me and them as humanly possible, especially when my life or freedom could be at stake.

You did not see George Bush saying that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks ever.

I searched for a quote from Bush saying that, but I found none. If he ever said such a thing, it would be easy to find. I found this article, though:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/18/iraq/main584234.shtml

You'd think that they'd have mentioned any quotes that you imagined you heard in a story like that, right?

If you did see such a thing, you might have been on some sort of drugs that made you see weird stuff.

Bush has said many times that there were links between Saddam's Iraq and Al Qaeda, which is true. The lefties, in their drive to lose the war, decided to ignore all of that stuff and pretend that when Bush says "Iraq had links with Al Qaeda" he is actually saying, "Saddam planned 9/11", which, again, he never said.

So you might want to repair your memory on this one, for accuracy.

Yes yes, the government is too stupid to be the boss of you. The government shouldn't be allowed to do anything unless pretty much everyone else knows about it. Good idea.

You realize that seeing something with your own eyes (ears) doesn't count against not finding something in the Internet.

I remember arguing with someone in a customer service department once. I was looking at an error message on my screen and they kept telling me it didn't exist. I was like WTF, do you think I'm having a psychotic break here? Screenshot, print, and fax later, they finally acknowledged that maybe I was correct.

You can't convince those with a closed mind and a agenda. You could lock them in a room with absolute proof and they would emerge with some creative denial strategy.

It's a much better idea than blind trust and obedience, and it's exactly why we have a system of checks and balances. Bush went around the law, and the Republican congress has been completely negligent in exercising any oversight. Though I don't know why I'm bothering. You won't care about facts one way or another. You're a typical right wing apologist.

This link here about sums it up for me. I'm sure most of ya'll won't like it though. Oh well, I have thick skin.

Get a clue!

Yeah, because we all know that shoving broom handles up people's asses and waterboarding is just like what frat boys do to newcomers

What ever Chip.

*edit* BTW you are so predictable.

Haha, that movie is awesome.

Yeah, aversion to torture and being offended by people who try to justify senseless violence is so passe.

Prove the torture claim if you will. The offenders are in prison now. Maybe we should execute them. Oh I forgot, you're against capital punishment too. What a quandry.

Haha, facts. There are a lot of different laws that apply to this sort of thing. Your problem is that you're only reading the ones that seem to show that Bush did something wrong. You assume that the people discussing all of the laws that show that it's perfectly legal are liars, so you dismiss those laws. Which is why you don't know what you're talking about.

Facts.

Hippies decided to change the definition of torture. Now they think it's torture to make a terrorist sit in a 50 degree room for awhile. They talk about the water board like it's the most evil thing ever invented. "Oh no, the terrorist is laying on a board with a bag over his head and then water is run over them, making them feel like they are going to drown. No, they aren't in any danger of drowning, but they feel scared! Torture!"

Basically, hippies hate Bush so much that they are offended by anything he or the government he leads says or does. Kind of like how the governments in enemy countries look at things. Funny how that works, huh?

I'm not a neo-con Stankleberry, and I don't particularly care for Bush even though I voted for him twice. What I am though is a Disabled Vet and was in Iraq in '03 for the initial beginnings of the war. I saw, and many others like me saw, WMD's but that doesn't matter to these people. Again, it will be interesting when America gets invaded again (it will happen) to see the reactions and gnashing of teeth of the extreme left. I'll be fine

It definately matters. You saw WMDs? I know they found some, but nothing on the scale they thought they would. of what kind?