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The 14 Worst Corporate Evildoers

Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-15-2005 13:00
From: Agatha Palmerstone
I'm kind of dismayed that Lockheed-Martin got as few votes as it did, in fact the creator of the poll didn't choose it.
Well, I didn't want to check all of them, so I decided I'd select a single company I wouldn't check. My thought was that much of LM's funding is directed by policy decisions, meaning their actions to some extent are influenced by the democratic process.

I'm also surprised it didn't get many votes. I thought for sure my absent vote would be more than made up for by others.

~Ulrika~
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-15-2005 13:21
From: Kevn Klein
How can one who rejects sin suggest anyone or any corporation is evil? Wouldn't that require a moral judgement? Who decides what is right or wrong if there are no markers?
I define morality not through the dogma of religion but through logic and philosophy. Specifically, I derive my morality from Deontology augmented with Utilitarianism and Feminism.

~Ulrika~
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12-15-2005 13:28
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
I define morality not through the dogma of religion but through logic and philosophy. Specifically, I derive my morality from Deontology augmented with Utilitarianism and Feminism.





I'm also a Deiontologist... Praise Deion!
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Persephone Phoenix
loving laptopvideo2go.com
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,012
Interesting stuff
12-16-2005 16:44
I think that a society decides what is right and wrong, and that there is no clear independent morality. For instance, until a time alluded to by the biblical story of Abraham, it was considered perfectly moral and in fact, religiously correct to sacrifice kids to God. (yes, not the gods. God.)

It is considered morally correct in some (many actually) parts of the world to take a 13 year old girl and vivisect her genetalia so that she will never feel sexual pleasure again. It is also considered immoral for her to have an intact clitoris. In some countries it is considered moral for a regional council of wise men to order a woman to be gang raped. What is considered by specific societies to be moral often directly contradicts the morality of other societies.

For me, anything that privileges some people over others, forgetting for even two seconds that we are each only a scanty amount of DNA separated from other primates, is evil. If I were king,* each person would have equal access to basic opportunities until we turn 18: safe drinking water, safe food, safe shelter, basic health care, education, sewer, information, full personhood (no vivisections).

I agree that companies that victimize people are quite clearly evil (armaments manufactury would apply here for sure, esp when those manufacturers pressure politicians to get in as many wars as possible so that they can demonstrate their missiles to the Israelis and sell a few hundred of them, etc.) I also think, though, that ALL agri-business 'harvesting' of animals is evil. I'm sure many folks would disagree with my morality there, even though it seems quite clear cut to me. (no gross pun intended.)

In short, I don't think that morality is an absolute, except for in grammar. =)

*queens have a nasty habit of being beheaded when they become inconvenient.

From: Kevn Klein
You didn't answer my question... who decides what is right and wrong? Who sets the moral compass?
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-16-2005 16:48
From: Persephone Phoenix
I think that a society decides what is right and wrong, and that there is no clear independent morality.
This is exactly what I love about deontology. It defines an absolute morality.

~Ulrika~
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
12-16-2005 18:02
From: Persephone Phoenix

I also think, though, that ALL agri-business 'harvesting' of animals is evil. I'm sure many folks would disagree with my morality there, even though it seems quite clear cut to me. (no gross pun intended.)


Not so much "evil" as it is "stupid."
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-16-2005 18:20
From: Chance Abattoir
Not so much "evil" as it is "stupid."
I've been a vegetarian for a while but I've never been back home to see my family since I got serious about it. Well, all the holiday meals are planned and I'm feeling pressure to conform to my in-laws eating habits (they're quite traditional). Naturally, I'll be creative but I'm not looking forward to the obligatory beginning-of-the-meal conversations and strange looks and then there's always the concern I'll offend someone for not partaking in the gnawing of the flesh from the bone. Grunt grunt!

Although perhaps it won't be so bad. A couple years ago we ended the tradition of giving gifts in our families on both sides (see my signature link). That has gone and continues to go well. :)

~Ulrika~
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
12-16-2005 21:03
From: Kevn Klein
You didn't answer my question... who decides what is right and wrong? Who sets the moral compass?

It is not a case of who sets a moral compass. Right mind leads to right action. If your mind is right then your actions will be right. If your mind is wrong then your actions will be wrong. But this is arather narrow desicritption because the notion of right and wrong are really labels that trap the mind. A lot of it has to do with what is and what isn't.

The notion of a "moral compass" does not enter into it. There are not a bunch of rules that you must follow (well maybe in Theravedic buddhism. Christianity is moral paint paint by numbers, and going outside the line is a sin. In buddhims there is no sin. Just wrong mind and wrong actions. Noone decides anything. Well maybe the Buddha did when he sat under a tree. But really we all have the same capabilites for enlightnement. Every man is a buddha and everyman is a demon.

I think of it more like Buddha discovered innate truths, he did not set a moral compass.
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Join date: 17 Sep 2004
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12-16-2005 21:16
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
I've been a vegetarian for a while but I've never been back home to see my family since I got serious about it. Well, all the holiday meals are planned and I'm feeling pressure to conform to my in-laws eating habits (they're quite traditional). Naturally, I'll be creative but I'm not looking forward to the obligatory beginning-of-the-meal conversations and strange looks and then there's always the concern I'll offend someone for not partaking in the gnawing of the flesh from the bone. Grunt grunt!

Although perhaps it won't be so bad. A couple years ago we ended the tradition of giving gifts in our families on both sides (see my signature link). That has gone and continues to go well. :)

~Ulrika~


I hold no ill will to vegetarians and i'm willing to support them in their endeavors. I understand the economic, physiological and moral arguments in favor of it. However, the tactile sensation of a dead animal's flesh being sheared by my teeth, combined with the flavor of the animal's melted fat flowing over my tongue, as well as the scent of seared muscle is just too tempting to resist. I know it's globally inefficent, but hey, my lizard brain has needs too.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-16-2005 21:40
From: Jake Reitveld
I think of it more like Buddha discovered innate truths, he did not set a moral compass.
I'll take innate truths over a moral compass any day! :D

~Ulrika~
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Chance Abattoir
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Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
12-17-2005 10:16
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
Naturally, I'll be creative but I'm not looking forward to the obligatory beginning-of-the-meal conversations and strange looks and then there's always the concern I'll offend someone for not partaking in the gnawing of the flesh from the bone. Grunt grunt!


Disturbingly authentic when presented with gravy.

It's really expensive, but tastes like roast. It also made me physically ill because that's what happens when I eat too much wheat, but you might not have the same problem. There are some Chinese markets with really remarkable fake meats developed using the same or similar techniques. Thank asia for buddhists. There are a couple of buddhist restaurants I frequent that have RIDICULOUS fake chicken tenders. The texture is perfect and they have this awesome five spice seasoning.

Last night I had a fake crab soup at a buddhist restaurant that was way too real (the texture was barely wrong, but the flavor was dead on) and after the first bite I knew I'd never get it again. Oyster and Lobster mushrooms are also supposed to taste like their animal counterparts when prepared correctly, but I wouldn't know because I never liked either animal and I haven't tried the mushrooms.
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
12-17-2005 11:31
From: Chance Abattoir
Disturbingly authentic when presented with gravy.
That looks great! I'll have to give that a try at home some time. :)

From: someone
Last night I had a fake crab soup at a buddhist restaurant that was way too real (the texture was barely wrong, but the flavor was dead on) and after the first bite I knew I'd never get it again. Oyster and Lobster mushrooms are also supposed to taste like their animal counterparts when prepared correctly, but I wouldn't know because I never liked either animal and I haven't tried the mushrooms.
I too recently had some vegetarian meat substitutes at a Chinese restaurant. It was much better than the tofu that I used to get with less of a sponge texture and more of a meat texture.

~Ulrika~
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