Gay Marriage / Civil Union
|
|
Lora Morgan
Puts the "eek" in "geek"
Join date: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 779
|
05-19-2006 07:36
From: Michael Seraph So, if you're against gay marriage, don't marry somebody of the same sex. But don't feel free to apply your beliefs to my life. Couldn't have put it better myself. I can't believe how acceptable it is to be so bigotted as to not just oppose gay marriage, but try to prevent others from it. Not only is it acceptable, our f***ing president says that. People will look back on these years like we do to the 50's and 60's with racism. Homophobia will likely never go away, but I long for the day when a small amount of people are shunned and made to look ignorant for their anti-gay beliefs. |
|
Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
|
05-19-2006 07:45
From: Madiera Westerburg i wish i had known how against marriage i was BEFORE i actually got married  Werd
_____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen
Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant
|
|
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
|
05-19-2006 08:26
From: Kendra Bancroft Find me an acceptable Federal definition for man and woman in the context of marriage.
I'll wait. Is it too much to hope that you'll be holding your breath?  -Kiamat Dusk
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
|
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
05-19-2006 08:52
From: Cross Lament I personally think they should ditch marriage entirely, as an outdated institution, and just have some sort of civil contract between individuals of whatever gender. Given that that's unlikely, then I guess I'm pro-gay-marriage, since discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is clearly and unarguably wrong. Of course, I find laws mandating monogomy stupid, too, along with pretty much all morality laws. But hey, that's me.  Nope, it's not just you. I see no reason the government should be involved in personal relationships past allowing you to file a contract which specifies responsibility for children, what happens to property, and who gets to decide what to do if you're unconscious - which are the nonreligious functions of marriage. I'm pro civil unions for everyone.
_____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
|
|
Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
|
05-19-2006 09:01
From: Kiamat Dusk I think that marriage should remain between one man and one woman. I don't have any problem with specific churches having such a policy, but the fact is that gays & TG/TS folks pay taxes too. Some of them pay a lot of taxes. It's supposed to be their government too. So why can't their local/state government also issue marriage certificates? What has happened is that fully 10% of our population (give or take) is disenfranchised from one of the most meaningful institutions we have. From: someone However, the core of this issue is the special rights that come with marriage like right to inheritence and who gets to see you in the hospital, etc. And insurance coverage. And adoption. And power of attorney. The assumption we're seeing with so much of the anti-gay marriage campaign is that gays cannot be good parents. That's just not true -- if anything, I could probably come up with statistics showing how many hetero couples make lousy parents. It has nothing to do with sexual preference. |
|
Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
|
05-19-2006 09:01
Some of you have said you are "pro civil union". But that is not the same as being "pro gay marriage". Civil Unions are different than marriage.
Briana Dawson
|
|
Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
|
A question
05-19-2006 09:03
Do any of you think that children raised by a gay couple (married or not) are more inclined to try homosexuality than children raised by heterosexuals?
Briana Dawson
|
|
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
|
05-19-2006 09:09
From: Briana Dawson Do any of you think that children raised by a gay couple (married or not) are more inclined to try homosexuality than children raised by heterosexuals?
Briana Dawson
Those kids may (I stress 'may') be inclined to be more open to experimentation with the same sex, but having an experience or two with a member of the same sex doesn't classify one as 'gay'. |
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
05-19-2006 09:10
From: Briana Dawson Some of you have said you are "pro civil union". But that is not the same as being "pro gay marriage". Civil Unions are different than marriage.
Briana Dawson If a gay or lesbian couple wants to get married, then I think they should be able to. If they want to have a civil union, then that's fine with me too. In other words, I don't think it's any of my business, however, I think everyone should have access to the same rights regardless.
_____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
|
|
Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
|
05-19-2006 09:13
From: Briana Dawson Do any of you think that children raised by a gay couple (married or not) are more inclined to try homosexuality than children raised by heterosexuals?
Briana Dawson I think they are less likely to realize that they are gay/lesbian in the 30s and be all fucked up about losing their family, etc. All the gays and lesbians that I know had straight parents. All the gay parents that I know have straight children. I'm bi and my son is hetero. *shrug* But who cares? Why do people have such an investment in other people's sexuality. If I don't want to have sex with them, then I don't give a damn. As for public sexuality - I would prefer not to trip over public sexuality of any stripe - get a room.
_____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004
Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
|
|
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
|
05-19-2006 09:16
From: Briana Dawson Do any of you think that children raised by a gay couple (married or not) are more inclined to try homosexuality than children raised by heterosexuals?
Briana Dawson Hmm. My parents were both heterosexual. And yet here I am a bisexual transeexual. So No. |
|
Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
|
05-19-2006 09:16
From: Briana Dawson Some of you have said you are "pro civil union". But that is not the same as being "pro gay marriage". Civil Unions are different than marriage. For those who are joining us late, I will reiterate... From: Zuzu Fassbinder The problem with the word marriage is that it serves two functions. One is a religious function and the other is a civil function.
Marriage as a religious function is strictly up to the religion you're talking to. Many churches perform wedding ceremonies for gay couples in many states. However, the government does not recognize those marriages and so they do not function in the civil sense. This is the same way that polygamous religions can have marriages to several people, although the government only recognizes one partner (at most).
What gay couples are fighting for are the civil rights given to married couples. This is what has lead to the "compromise" of civil unions for gay couples. The problem here becomes the fact that laws up until this point have used the terminology of "marriage" making it questionable if they would apply uniformly to civil unions and marriages. Because of this I would much rather see gay marriage legalized rather than civil unions as they are defined now. However, in the long run, I would like to see the government use the term civil union for everyone and leave the term marriage for the religious institution.
_____________________
From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
|
|
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
|
05-19-2006 09:25
I don't think it's as simple as saying it's "their" religion, so they have the right to do whatever.
I have a gay friend who is a devout Catholic. He should have the right to get married.
Law trumps religion.
Intolerance, in any civilized nation, is against the law.
Therefore, no religion should be allowed to promote intolerance.
|
|
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
|
05-19-2006 09:26
From: Kendra Bancroft Hmm. My parents were both heterosexual. And yet here I am a bisexual transeexual.
So No. And a great one at that <3 |
|
Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
|
05-19-2006 09:27
From: Eggy Lippmann Intolerance, in any civilized nation, is against the law.
How I wish that this sentiment was enforced. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060518/ap_on_go_co/senate_gay_marriageFrom: someone A Senate committee approved a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage Thursday, after a shouting match that ended when one Democrat strode out and the Republican chairman bid him "good riddance."
"I don't need to be lectured by you. You are no more a protector of the Constitution than am I," Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., shouted after Sen. Russ Feingold (news, bio, voting record) declared his opposition to the amendment, his affinity for the Constitution and his intention to leave the meeting.
"If you want to leave, good riddance," Specter finished.
"I've enjoyed your lecture, too, Mr. Chairman," replied Feingold, D-Wis., who is considering a run for president in 2008. "See ya."
_____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen
Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant
|
|
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
|
05-19-2006 09:34
From: Kendra Bancroft Hmm. My parents were both heterosexual. And yet here I am a bisexual transeexual.
So No. |
|
Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
|
05-19-2006 09:38
From: Briana Dawson Do any of you think that children raised by a gay couple (married or not) are more inclined to try homosexuality than children raised by heterosexuals?
Briana Dawson If by "try" you mean explore their sexuality and come to terms with who they are without feelings of guilt and fear. Then yes. If you mean "be homosexual" then no. People are who they are regardless of who/what their parents are. My own personal story... I gew up in the midwest. Very strong religous family and town. As a kid the absolute worst slur you could say to someone was to call them "gay" (fag, queer, whatever). For a very long time I've denied to myself what I really am because I didn't want to admit that I might be gay. I'm still not sure. However, in recent years I have been coming to terms more and more and its like a giant weight has been lifted. I still haven't come out to my family because I'm really not sure how they would react. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't outright reject me, but I do think that there would be a big difference in the way they treat me. I'm not sure I can handle that. I want them to accept me for who I am, not the preconcieved notions of what "gay" means. Anyway, what were you trying to dig out with your question?
_____________________
From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
|
|
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
|
05-19-2006 09:41
From: Zuzu Fassbinder
My own personal story... I gew up in the midwest. Very strong religous family and town. As a kid the absolute worst slur you could say to someone was to call them "gay" (fag, queer, whatever). For a very long time I've denied to myself what I really am because I didn't want to admit that I might be gay. I'm still not sure. However, in recent years I have been coming to terms more and more and its like a giant weight has been lifted. I still haven't come out to my family because I'm really not sure how they would react. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't outright reject me, but I do think that there would be a big difference in the way they treat me. I'm not sure I can handle that. I want them to accept me for who I am, not the preconcieved notions of what "gay" means.
I wish you the best, Zuzu. |
|
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
|
05-19-2006 09:50
From: Juro Kothari I didn't realize you were a transsexual, Kendra. M to F or F to M? m2f |
|
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
|
05-19-2006 09:51
From: Christopher Omega Agreed. Contemporary opinion, however, still hasn't completely separated church and state. The US government mentions married partners several times in law. Its unfortunate people get confused about the difference between legal marriage and religious marriage.
I vehemiantly support gay marrage, but will not put my energies behind civil unions. We've already witnessed what has happened when we implement seperate-but-"equal" policies.
==Chris this is really the whole issue. The arguements against gay marriage can all be routed in religeon. All of them. Thats why it is such a contested issue and why people becoem so irrational over banning or allowing gay marriage becuase religeon isnt about rationalization its about faith, and they feel their faith is threatened. of course preventing gay marriage is discrimination - well see that some day, as a country. |
|
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
|
05-19-2006 12:10
From: Kendra Bancroft Does this mean you'll finally pop the question, big boy? This girl can't wait forever ya know Any time, Kendra, so long as you promise to make me King of Neualtenburg. |
|
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
|
05-19-2006 12:12
From: Selador Cellardoor Any time, Kendra, so long as you promise to make me King of Neualtenburg. Considering I'm Queen of Neualtenburg that's rather a gimmee. |
|
PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
|
05-19-2006 12:19
From: Jonquille Noir Everyone should have the same rights and priviledges regardless of sexual orientation. I agree to 110% or more.. if there are more!! And its a pity that we must discuss this that should be a normal right for any... /Tina - We should Al have the EXAKT same rights.. |
|
DolphPun Somme
The Pun is its own reword
Join date: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 309
|
05-23-2006 01:27
I am a gay man. I have had one of the most unpopular opinions on this subject among my "fellows" ... So I just HAVE to share. *dramatic pause*
Marrage is a state sponsored RELIGIOUS instituation and has no place in law. Some have argued that you can be married by a judge/ships captain/etc.
However the only reason to oppose gay marrage is religious. Either it is a religion thing or it isn't. Which is it?
My opionion? Ban marrage entirely. If you wish to join a religious union, WONDERFUL! May God's blessings be upon you. However you don't get special treatment as far as taxes and the laws go. No tax benefits to spurt another child out.
Its amazing to me that in this country where you can park illegally on sunday in front of a tax exempt church, religious zealots still have the audacity to accuse gay people of wanting "special rights" like being treated equally.
And before you get a rope, I am NOT anti-christian. I am more anti-zealot fundamentalist bigot.
OH, BTW Kudos to South Africa! Legalized Gay Marrage. Yes, mary, south africa is more progressive than the USA.
|
|
Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
|
05-23-2006 07:58
From: Kendra Bancroft Considering I'm Queen of Neualtenburg that's rather a gimmee. *curtsies*
_____________________
From: Billybob Goodliffe everyone loves phedre (excluding chickens), its in the TOS 
|
