OSX "less secure" than other platforms according to security specialists

Bears repeating. 100% right on all counts.

Huh? I honestly can't imagine how you can say that. Apple ads almost always, either through direct statement or indirect implication, comment about how their products are so much better than their competition (without ever stating why). When they don't they're all flash and no substance. I've always found it an insult to my intelligence. Remember the famous 1984 big brother ad? Ooh, pretty. Now what does that have to do with computing? Beats the hell out of me. Or how about their testimonial ads featuring people talking about how bad their experiences were with Wintel and how liberated they feel now that they own a Mac. By comparison I think Windows ad campaigns are quite good and are always focused on the capabilities of their OS and the technologies it enables. I can't think of a single ad they've ever run that even mentions Apple.

I say all this as someone who has nothing against Apple products excpet that I've always found them to be overpriced and underpowered and not a good fit for my needs or budget. Nor am I a MS fanboy. I'm just someone who's been using their products for the past fifteen years with very little trouble, and mainly because the primary tools I use for my career were written for Windows. A tool is a tool and I've always felt they should be advertised as tools, not lifestyle choices. I've always found Apple's advertising to be very off-putting.

According to MacWorld, benchmarks done by the magazine show that Apple is mistating the speed of the MacTel.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/features/imaclabtest1/index.php

Its unfair to Macs to an extent, but this is perhaps the best use of the Switch add ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HPxZygU6g

haha, I love that video.

Windows and OS X are teh suxx0rz; AmigaOS pwns them both. Anyone who says otherwise is an 1d10t!

Oh no! Apple said their product was better than Brand X! They're EVIL! EVIL I TELL YOU!

Some of you guys sure do get butt hurt over Apple's marketing.

YES!!! Amiga's ROCKED!! But I couldnt afford one back then

I dislike any product marketed that way. It's not an anti-Apple thing so you can unbunch your panties now

Does it really matter which OS is "more secure" at the moment? That's like the local news stations saying "Studies show coffee may kill you!" and the next day saying "Coffee will make you live longer!" All OS's have enough holes that somebody somewhere could find a vulnerability.

What matters to me isn't some CNet article, or Apple's or Dell's ad campaigns, or which chip makes it go hum. It comes down to which computer helps me work better, and stays out of my way. And doesn't make me scratch my head when I go to plug something in. My choice happens to be the Mac OS. I've used both over many years, and that's my informed decision.

I'm proud of my choice. Yes, the cult aspect can get annoying, but who is anyone trying to convince when they bash the other OS? How many minds have you changed? I'll proudly show my Mac to anyone who's one the fence, but I'll let them decide which works better.

I do consider it unprofessional, yes. Professionalism is a big thing I look for in big ticket items... Even in smaller stuff, to an extent.

For some things, it absolutely does matter.

The biggest thing is marketing to corporations... "secure" is a big buzzword, even if it's mostly meaningless.

Not.

(and if you read Chosen's statement carefully you will see it is completely illogical)

Also, compare Steve Balmers ranting psychotic, acrobatic, "red-faced with rage" product announcements with the Steve Jobs original and see who you think is being negative.

They are all the same as each other AFAICS.

I read it.

It's logical.

Show me the illogic, if you think otherwise.

Thanks, guys, but you missed the important point here. My statement has to be illogical. There's no way around it. Why? Well, because I was the one who said it, of course.

You see, Dianne just KNOWS these things. There's no way someone named Chosen Few could ever speak rationally. The universe might cease to exist.

I know, I know, my post looks like it makes sense, but clearly if that's how you see it then you're just not looking at it the right way. If you read it again, you'll see. It's obviously illogical.

What's that you say? You DID read it again? And it still makes logical sense to you? Well clearly you need to have a cup of coffee then. That will fix the problem. Look good & illogical now?

WHAT?!!! I can't believe you. How could you be so ill-informed? So negative? You really think something said by Chosen Few could possibly make sense? Come on, Dianne tells it like it is. I'm always "smart", "intelligent", "articulate" by her words, yet somehow I still seem to end up "misinformed", "ignorant", "mistaken", "sloppy", or my personal favorite, "illogical" every single time. Come on guys, can't you see it? Stick to the facts. Don't get emotional. You'll see that everything I say is illogical. That's just the way it is. Dianne knows this, and so do all the "many others" she's got sitting at her computer with her. How could you be so blind?

I know. How about I start calling what I said a debate, even though it wasn't? Just ignore the part where I said I've got no problem agreeing to disagree. Obviously that part was a figment of your imagination. Now, read it again? Still look logical? Damn.

Okay, how about if I bunch up everything I said that was a clear statement of my own personal opinion and try to label it as claims of fact? Would that do it? I mean, seriously, forget that I was talking about how certain things make me feel when I see them. I don't really have feelings, so I had to be talking about facts right? Starting to look illogical now? Okay, now we're getting somewhere. We can build on this.

Ready for the icing on the cake? Now I'll take everything I said that actually was a fact, and label it "a series of negative insulting statements". Looking illogical now? Okay, good. I thought so.

You see, the world is really simple. Dianne's always right and I'm always wrong. It's okay for her to put words in my mouth, and to accuse me of whatever she might have seen on Dr. Phil yesterday afternoon because she always manages to preface it by telling me how smart I am, and I like to be told I'm smart, so that makes everything else just melt away. Ain't the simple life grand?

It says more about the current state of the advertising profession to me. Everyone does it. Microsoft spend millions funding dubious studies about how they're much better than Linux, for example (they don't attack Apple because Apple are not really a threat to their market, they're more worried about people using Linux servers and switching their company infrastructure to Linux, particularly with people like IBM and Dell being quite happy to help them do that). Companies in every industry do it, to say nothing of politicians. There are far more egregious examples than the odd dig about Windows in Apple ads.

I don't think Apple are any better than the rest of them as a company - I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw a Powermac. They're all capitalist swine. I just happen to think their OS is technically superior and their hardware is good, so I use them both.

This entire post is a personal attack Chosen.
Please post a serious meaningful apology or I will be forced to report it as such.

The illogical statement is as follows:

And as I said: This is a classic "apples and oranges" kind of mistake as far as I can see. The two things you equated are not the same. On the one side there is Apples refusal to comment on a criticism, on the other side there is Apples criticism of others. If you were comparing Apples criticism of others to others criticism of them, or Apples refusal to comment on a criticism with other companies refusal to comment on a criticism, then that is the same thing.

I asserted that it was illogical because of this lack of similarity in the things you were contrasting and comparing. It sounds reasonable to me and was not intended to put the wind up your skirt that it appears to have done.

Just for another lesson in "contrast and compare," this statement of mine does *not* equate to a rambling personal attack on me by you.

I repeat, please post a reasonable, heartfelt apology or I will report this post as the personal attack that it clearly seems to be.

That Prok does do a good rant, though.

*shakes head*

Actually it was a satirical look at the way in which you like to troll my posts and twist my words. As usual when you pull this sort of thing, I'm sorry that you feel the need to react as you do, but that's as far as it goes. I did not attack you, so no apology is necessary, at least not from my end. Feel free to report whatever you want as whatever you want, as usual. That's entirely your decision.

This will be my final response to you on this thread.

I am no angel myself and I think I remember "going off on you" in the past (in response to what I perceived as your misogynist condescending posts), so I do understand how you feel about me.

But in this particular case, how does you going off on a big rant about me and me asking for you to apologise qualify as me "react(ing) as I do?"

Illogical, Illogical, .... Norman, co-ordinate, beeeeep!

I've participated in my share of OS wars before, so I might as well throw out my 2 cents for this one.

I've grown up using both PC and Mac. My user experience has happened to be better on the Mac side, so logically I chose Mac. Some people enjoy Window's machines more. That's good for them, more power to them.

All I know, is on my college campus I don't know any Windows users that are not running one or more anit-virus programs, and several spyware/adware removers. (granted I don't know everyone, but I do know my share of people). There was a statistic somewhere that said something like several hundred new viruses are released every day for windows or something (yes I know about statistics, they can say anything).

As far as security though, I've only used two windows computers that never had viruses (all the others the viruses were the fault of the users, but they were computer illeterate). I agree that a more advanced user can easily keep viruses off of Windows. And yes, I know that Macs are just as vulnerable... but the fact is... I've only ever seen one major virus attack the Mac OS, and it was over almost as fast as it started (this was around 5 years ago and it hit some kids that were in the college prep course I was taking). Other than that, I've never had to try to remove or recover from a virus and/or spyware/adware. Mac os may have as many vulnerabilities... but the "sad" fact is that Mac users just haven't had to worry about virus's for the most part up till this point.

I think my point is pretty clear... even though they "may" be as vulnerable... they haven't really had to worry about security issues hardly at all compared to the average windows user.

I'd like to say again however what many people have already said in this thread. It's a matter of choice. Everybody just seems to be getting heated up because not everybody likes their OS of choice. Get over it. I know most PC users will give me a hard time because I use Mac... but isn't it really my choice in the end? The same with them. It's a choice... why not leave each other alone to our own choices?

back to the original post, i guess apple figures that either A ppl are so deticated to that brand that noone could possibly find a flaw, or B if you just went out and spent 4 grand on a propritary computer, you probally wouldnt know anyways.

We all know apple is perfect and flawless
(unless you had a macII with 24 bit memory addressing, heh What? you want more than 4mb of ram? why? or that powerbook that had that burst into flames thing, or the original mac again heh now take your 5 thousand $ brand new computer and drop it about a foot to 18 inches so it will turn on)

To the Mac Addics, popups and spyweare are on the mac also, just use Internet Explorer, its a choice just like on winblows, theres mac virui out there, ive never had any on my macs, but then ive not had but a cupple on my pc's since the 1980's too.

BTW i love mac's i just wish they wernt sooo expensive

What kills me is the same people who say Apple is a monopoly also tell us that they have only a tiny share of the market. LOL. Apple is at heart a computer maker. Microsoft is an operating systems maker. Two very different things. One of the features of an Apple computer is the proprietary operating system. Why would, or should, Apple license its biggest feature to its competitors? Just so some critics can get the Mac OS on a cheaper box? If you compare Apple products with similarly configured PC's the prices are not that much different. Apple only puts out top-end products, so you pay a top-end price. Market share is almost irrelevant. Apple is one of the world's largest computer makers, rivaling Dell and others.

No one is saying that Apple doesn't make mistakes. Apple's fans are its biggest and most vocal critics. But the criticisms that Apple products are too expensive or that they're a monopoly because they won't license the OS to their competitors are silly. And no, there are not Pop-Ups on Macs. There are websites that have pop-up windows that you can configure your browser to block, those aren't what we're talking about. We're talking about programs that take advantage of the OS and Microsoft Messenger to open windows spontaneously on your machine, when the browser isn't running. And, something that really could be useful here in the forums, Mac OSX has universal spell check.

Apple isn't a monopoly, of course not.

They are, however, proprietary as all hell.