Christian Condemed To Death

OK, so I thought I'd do a little experiment. I held off on posting this to see if any of the anti-death penalty, pro-diversity, Liberals would post it, express outrage, etc.

As expected, none of that happened. A convicted murder gets the needle and the Liberals in these forums are crawling the walls. But if they want to execute a Christian for no other crime than his beliefs well then mum's the word.

-Kiamat Dusk


Death could await Christian convert
U.S. lawmaker: Christian-conversion prosecution 'outrageous'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In the days of the Taliban, those promoting Christianity in Afghanistan could be arrested and those converting from Islam could be tortured and publicly executed.

That was supposed to change after U.S.-led forces ousted the oppressive, fundamentalist regime, but the case of 41-year-old Abdul Rahman has many Western nations wondering if Afghanistan is regressing.

Rahman, a father of two, was arrested last week and is now awaiting trial for rejecting Islam. He told local police, whom he approached on an unrelated matter, that he had converted to Christianity. Reports say he was carrying a Bible at the time.

"They want to sentence me to death, and I accept it," Rahman told reporters last week, "but I am not a deserter and not an infidel."

The Afghan constitution, which is based on Sharia, or Islamic law, says that apostates can receive the death penalty. (Watch how Rahman's case could cast doubts on Afghanistan's commitment to democracy -- 1:17)

Afghanistan's population is 80 percent Sunni Muslim and 19 percent Shiite Muslim, according to the CIA. The other 1 percent of the population is classified as "other."
U.S.: Freedom to worship part of democracy

Rahman's case raises thorny issues between Afghanistan and its Western allies, and U.S. officials this week made certain that Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah, who is in Washington for talks on the U.S.-Afghan strategic partnership, understood their qualms.

"We have underscored also to Foreign Minister Abdullah that we believe that tolerance and freedom of worship are important elements of any democracy," U.S. State Department spokesman Scott McCormack told reporters Tuesday. "We urge the Afghan government to conduct any legal proceedings in a transparent and fair manner."

Abdullah was supposed to talk to reporters Tuesday about talks for the strategic partnership. Instead, Abdullah was bombarded with questions about the Rahman case.

"I know that it is a very sensitive issue and we know the concerns of the American people," Abdullah said, adding that the Afghan Embassy in Washington had received "hundreds of messages" on the issue.

He further said that the Afghan government had nothing to do with the case.

"But I hope that through our constitutional process, there will be a satisfactory result," he said.

Rahman's case illustrates a split over the interpretation of the Afghan constitution, which calls for religious freedom while stating that Muslims who reject Islam can be executed.

Nicholas Burns, undersecretary for political affairs, said he understands the complexities of the case and promised the United States would respect Afghan sovereignty. However, he said, Afghans should be free to choose their own religion, and he believes the nation's constitution supports that.

"We hope the Afghan constitution is going to be upheld," Burns said. "If he has the right of freedom of religion, that ought to be respected."

Rahman's case could force Afghan President Hamid Karzai into the undesirable position of mediating the matter. Karzai has to placate an ever-restless populace in turbulent post-war Afghanistan, but at the same time, he needs Western assistance to stave off the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda.
Allies indignant

The U.S. has 23,000 troops in the country; Germany has 2,700. Canada has 2,300 stationed there, and Italy has 1,775, according to Reuters.

All four nations have expressed displeasure over the situation, some even saying that it is intolerable that soldiers of all faiths die to protect a country threatening to kill its own for converting to Christianity.

Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga wrote a letter to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, urging him to withdraw Italian troops from Afghanistan unless Kabul guarantees Rahman's safety, Reuters reported.

"It is not acceptable that our soldiers should put themselves at risk or even sacrifice their lives for a fundamentalist, illiberal regime," Cossiga wrote.

Rep. Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, wrote a letter to Karzai asking him to intervene and uphold "core democratic principles and fundamental human rights."

"In a country where soldiers from all faiths, including Christianity, are dying in defense of your government, I find it outrageous that Mr. Rahman is being prosecuted and facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity," Lantos wrote.

One German official promised to intervene if necessary. Another, Development Minister Heide Wieczorek-Zeul, said, "We will do everything possible to save the life of Abdul Rahman," according to Reuters.

Canada echoed that sentiment, saying human rights in Afghanistan was a top priority and that "Canada will continue to encourage the Afghan government to adhere to its human rights obligations," foreign ministry spokeswoman Pamela Greenwell told Reuters.

CNN's Elise Labott contributed to this report.

Reuters contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/21/afghan.christian/index.html

Thats fucked Kiamat, I might not be a christian myself, but thats fucked.
Thankfully the bleeding heart liberals of amnesty international are already on this Kiamat.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA110082006

Happy now?

I was holding off too.

your bozo boss put this govt in

seems he didn't realize he was setting up open season on Christians in Afghanastan

I think it is an outrage

I am just waiting for the spin machine to turn this into a positive

"Afghanastan now has a functioning court system that can hand out freedom, Justice, and Liberty"

This is just more proof that this administration is in WAY over their heads

well..

1. Nobody should be executed simply because of their religious beliefs.
2. That is not in the USA (though it should not happen anywhere in the world)
3. I'm fine with the death penalty as long as certain requirements are met.
4. Stop trolling

Rice Calls Karzai on Christian Convert's Fate

Thursday , March 23, 2006

WASHINGTON — Concerned about the fate of a Christian convert in Afghanistan on trial for his life, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case.

"This is a very deeply concerning development in Afghanistan and we have raised it at the highest levels,” Rice said during a press conference with the Greek minister of foreign affairs. “We look forward, hopefully, to a resolution to this in the very near future."

Abdul Rahman, 41, a medical aid worker, converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago, a fact that came out publicly during a civil custody case between him and his wife in front of local authorities. The authorities charged him with rejecting Islam, a crime under the country's Shar'ia-based law. The penalty, if guilty, is death.

Rice said religious freedom is the heart of democracy, a principle she hopes Afghanistan would uphold in its constitution in considering Rahman's case.

“We have raised it in the strongest possible terms to make clear that it is our great hope and desire that Afghanistan will reaffirm what is already in its constitution, that the universal declaration on human rights will be respected, and that this will be resolved in a way that is consistent with those principles," Rice said.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack reported that Rice underlined to Karzai the "fact that the United States stands forthrightly for principles of freedom of worship, freedom of expression, and that these are bedrock principles of democracy around the world, these are principles that are enshrined in the Afghan constitution and they're principles that are enshrined in the U.N. Universal Declaration on Human Rights.

"We're looking for a favorable resolution at the earliest possible time," McCormack added.

On Wednesday, President Bush said he was troubled by the possible decapitation of Rahman.

"I'm troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account. That's not the universal application of the values that I talked about. I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship," Bush said.

At the White House on Thursday, spokesman Scott McClellan said he was aware of Rice's call, but had not gotten a readout yet of the content. He said the administration will continue to stay in close contact with the Afghan government "and work with them to make sure that people's religious freedoms are protected."

In deference to the country's sovereignty, Rice evidently did not demand specifically that the trial be halted and the defendant released.

"This is clearly an Afghan decision to take. They are a sovereign government. It's a sovereign country. But as I pointed out, we believe that it is important that as the issue is resolved, that those fundamental principles of freedom of religion, freedom of expression are affirmed in the resolution of this case," McCormack said.

Still, her direct appeal to a foreign leader in a proceeding in his country is an unusual move. Rice also spoke to outgoing Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah earlier this week. Abdullah is in Washington, D.C., where he spoke Thursday at American University.

In the question and answer session, Abdullah said that he didn't want this situation to happen, but Afghanistan's exercise of its judicial system is in line with the constitution and its development of a democratic nation.

"We're aware of the fact that there might be different interpretation. It was not in the executive branch, it has been in the judicial. What are the options for the president and for the government, I'm not going to comment on that. I'm sure there will be a solution," he said.

In Afghanistan, Supreme Court judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada told Reuters that "Afghanistan is an Islamic country and its judiciary will act independently and neutrally. ... No other policy will be accepted apart from Islamic orders and what our constitution says."

Amnesty International also weighed in on the trial, demanding Rahman's release.

"No individual should ever be persecuted — let alone executed — for his or her religious beliefs. The freedom to practice one's own faith without fear of retribution is one of humanity's most sacred rights. If Rahman has been imprisoned solely because he converted to Christianity, he must be immediately and unconditionally released," said Amnesty International Executive Director William F. Schulz.

Separately, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist urged Rice to "use every diplomatic means necessary" to ensure Rahman's immediate release.

"I am greatly concerned by Mr. Rahman's prosecution and the challenge his case presents to the future of Afghanistan. It is fair to say that the United States has not spent the last four plus years liberating, defending, rebuilding and assisting Afghanistan's democratic development only to see the Afghani people remain subject to laws reminiscent of the Taliban's reign," Frist said.

Rahman is believed to have lived in Germany for nine years after converting to Christianity while working for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He returned to Kabul in 2002.

It was not immediately clear when Rahman's trial will resume. He is not believed to have a lawyer.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,188936,00.html

Bush presses Afghanistan on jailed Christian
President also calls on Iraq's elected leaders to form government

WHEELING, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday defended an Afghan who could face the death penalty for converting to Christianity.

Afghan authorities are trying Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old Christian convert, on charges of rejecting Islam -- an offense that can be penalized by death under Afghanistan's constitution, which is based on Islamic law.

During a speech in West Virginia, Bush said the United States expects Afghan authorities "to honor the universal principle of freedom."

"I'm troubled when I hear -- deeply troubled -- when I hear the fact that a person who has converted away from Islam may be held to account," he said.

"I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship." (Watch Afghan Christian's sanity questioned -- 1:55)

U.S. troops overthrew Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, which had harbored al Qaeda, after the terrorist network's September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. American and NATO troops are now supporting the fledgling government of President Hamid Karzai and battling Taliban and al Qaeda remnants in parts of the country.

Bush said Afghanistan was "coming around" after the overthrow of the Taliban, "but I fully understand there is a lot more work to be done."

In response to a question about Rahman's case, Bush said, "We have got influence in Afghanistan, and we are going to use it."

He added, "It is deeply troubling that a country we helped liberate would hold a person to account because he chose a different religion over another."

Rahman's case has illustrated a split in Afghanistan over interpretation of the constitution, which calls for religious freedom while also stating that any Muslim who rejects Islam should be punished by death.

In a statement issued Wednesday afternoon, the Afghan Embassy said Karzai's government is "pursuing the best ways to resolve Mr. Rahman's case judicially."

"Afghanistan's judicial system is currently evaluating questions raised about the mental fitness of Mr. Rahman, the results of which may end the proceedings," the statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/22/bush/index.html

Is that how you shout down everyone who disagrees with you?

-Kiamat Dusk

/me taps kiamat's shoulder, youve had 3 replies, care to address them?

I'll be happy when he's freed. But, it's good to see AI doing something right for a change.
...or is that left...

-Kiamat Dusk

PS: The two other articles were posted in response to Hooch's post.

Democracy in action! Of course this is fucked. Good thing we tossed out the Taliban (who we used to support) so we could install Taliban 2: The Sequel! Pretty soon the people of Iraq who used to live in one of the only secular countires in the Middle East will get to experience the joy of living in an Islamic fundamentalist country too. Yay us! *cough*

Have I disagreed with anything you have said on this thread?

Actually take time to look over the Amnesty site, Kiamat, youll find theyre fighting for and raising awareness on a lot of human rights issues, that I'm sure youll agree with.

Certainly it's an outrage, Kiamat. My only problem with this thread of your's is it seems to say:



United States of America: We're not as bad as the Taliban.

I hold our country to higher standards than you.

Damn liberals

Damn hippies too. Der

You hold our country to different standards than I do. I have no interest in seeing our country become and aethiestic socialist state.

-Kiamat Dusk

But a theocratic dictatorship would be peachy?

You know better. Nothing in my posts supports that blatant fallacy.

-Kiamat Dusk

If "atheistic socialist" was the only alternative? Maybe. 75/25 in favor.

What was it you're looking for, exactly? I doubt there are any Afgani socialist liberals looking at this board.

It's like George Carlin said:

"The news report started with, 'Six thousand people died today...'"

"So I'm like WHERE? WHERE!? WHERE!?"

"'... in Pakistan...'"

"Aww, FUCK Pakistan!"

Its their country. their laws. Not the USA. No freedom of religion.

The person KNEW what he was doing. He KNEW it could get him killed. He COULD have left the country and not been held under this law (no matter how immoral).

Shrub is delusional and he should keep his nose out of other country's business until he can actually run our country well -and- without outright blatant lies.

I say let the bastard fry.. because how many would care if the guy had converted to atheism? I know Bush wouldn't care..after he takes after his daddy who believes athiests shouldn't be considered citizens of the US..

And even though I'm an atheist socialist --nothing in my posts has ever suggested that I wish to live in an athiest socialist state.

This whole thing is just a *stellar* example of why fundamentalist religion should be kept way the hell away from government.

*looks at the US*

... aw, crap...

This is an outrage because there is no God.

I'm not sure I understand the OP. You're saying that you've changed your mind about the death penalty and are now opposed to it... and you seem to be angry at death penalty opponents for not pointing this story out to you sooner?