Gore

Sure, we can pick apart Dick Cheney all day and why not, most of you seem to be enjoying it. But, why isn't anyone complaining about Al Gore in Saudi Arabia spreading viscious rumors, if not out right lies, about the way Saudis' treatment in America. First of all, he has no proof to back his claims. Second he is only hurting foreign relations with Saudis and other Muslims around the world. Third, he is throwing fuel on the fire, which is the anger and hatred of the American people. Yet the media seems to be burying this story and focusing on Cheney. I understand that Mr. Gore is upset that he isn't the president, but I feel that these are, in some way, acts of treason. Why do Mr. Gore and President Carter go on foreign lands and bash this administration during these hard pressed times we live in? It's not helping anyone,except of course, thier political agendas. Wouldn't it be better to stay here and try to help find a solution to the problems instead of going overseas and making it worse? I'm sorry, but whether you agree or not, this is a time of war and giving the terrorists political ammunition is wrong.

K you're turn

Why, what did he say that wasn't true?

http://www.shinesforall.com/archives/saudi_arabia/

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=12323

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1378530.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184737,00.html This is from Fox, and just in John Gibsons opinion..so all you Fox critics will have to assume it's a lie, but I couldn't find a single word about it on CNN

Sorry I usually try not to be so politically judgemental

Why couldn't George Bush stay here and find a solution to the problems instead of invading a country under false pretenses?

A speech seems tame by comparison.

Can't see anything there that he's said that looks like a lie.

The point is why is he making it worse?

And who's footing the bill? http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/13/182926.shtml?s=ic

He doesn't provide any proof of the horrible abuses that he claims. Yes Saudis were held in custody, but abused? When? Where? How? He won't answer those questions.

Edit: This is what really bugs me. Both parties are thrashing and trashing each other, but no one comes up with a real solution, they keep dwelling on the past. The left will say we need to pull out, GW says he's going to start pulling troops and then the left will say we need to strengthen not pull out. All each party does or stand for is whatever is opposite of the other party.

There were thousands of people rounded up post-911 and held without access to lawyers, notification of their families etc, sometimes for years. I think that counts as an abuse. I don't know how many were Saudis but I'd bet some were - anyway, he says "Arabs", not "Saudis".



I don't have any brief for Gore, I'm not a Democrat and I think the Democrats are a useless bunch in general, but I can't see the inaccuracies here.

What conditions were unforgivable? Proof? And considering our mindset after 9/11, why wouldn't overstaying a visa or improper green card be something that needed to be checked into? I think that was a legitimate concern at the time. Regardless, I think what he is doing is no less than yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Worse than what?

If you commit a crime and I call you on it. I am not making the crime worse. I may be making things worse for you, but the criminal act stands on its own.

Bush is being called on it everyday, and remains in the hot seat...but don't you think that going to Saudi Arabia and giving them more reasons to hate America will incite, and justify in their minds, more terrorist attacks? I mean, come on, what's his point to all this other than political gain?

Guantanamo bay, and we've all seen the footage, and heard the accounts of people who've subsequently got out, like the British citizens illegally heard there.

Being held for years in secret without access to a lawyer is okay?

This is all... well, I was going to say "common knowledge" but I suppose not. Certainly fully documented and undeniable. It mostly seems to have been forgotten about now.

I honestly haven't seen the vids but have heard some stories. But I believe he's talking about American soil. And yes he has the right to freedom of speech so he can say what he wants, but why keep bringing up these mistakes and pointing them out to a venue that he knows will incite more hatred to America.

Is this the part?

"Al Gore told a mainly Saudi audience on Sunday that the U.S. government committed 'terrible abuses' against Arabs after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, and that most Americans did not support such treatment," the AP reports. "Gore said Arabs had been 'indiscriminately rounded up' and held in 'unforgivable' conditions. The former vice president said the Bush administration was playing into al-Qaida's hands by routinely blocking Saudi visa applications," the AP reports. We heard about this from Scott Johnson at Powerline, who writes that "the adage that 'politics stops at the water's edge' has apparently long since been laid to rest."


Where does it specifically say American soil, this covers Guantanamo



By Sher Zieve – Former Democrat VP Al Gore spoke to the Jeddah Economic Forum in Saudi Arabia, on Sunday, and told the audience that President Bush was blocking Saudi applications for US visas and ‘playing into al-Qaeda’s hands’. He also told his audience that the US government had committed "terrible abuses" against Arabs.
Gore said “the thoughtless way in which visas are now handled, that is a mistake. The worst thing we can possibly do is to cut off the channels of friendship and mutual understanding between Saudi Arabia and the United States”, the Pakistan Dawn reported.

Gore continued his tirade by saying that the US under President Bush had “indiscriminately rounded up, often on minor charges of overstaying a visa or not having a green card in proper order, and held in conditions that were just unforgivable” and “Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it’s wrong. I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country.”


Let me repeat the important part "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country.", hes making it obvious this is Bush and his Cabals wish, not that of the american people.

Well if I had a choice, I would rather be confined in an American prison without an attorney, then being beheaded for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure not having access to an attorney is wrong but not an unforgivable condition. Gore makes it sound like we were torturing people. By comparison to what the terrorist do for torture, I dont' see the resemblance and certainly nothing unforgiveable.

So being seperated from your family for years with no communication, with no legal representation is fine.... you must just love the patriot act, and all those empty FEMA camps waiting for recalcitrant US citizens.

What relevance does beheading have to this? I'd rather be locked up than beheaded; I would also rather be locked up than thrown out of a helicopter, or beheaded than tortured to death, or be given Coke rather than Pepsi, but all of these are beside the point. "There are worse things in the world" is not a meaningful defence.

I don't consider holding people incommunicado, in secret, for years to be forgiveable behaviour.

I have to agree with spinner on this. I find that the media report many things, specifically anything anti-Bush, and many from the left say things, mostly anti-Bush, without ever offering proof of what they are saying, or offering solutions to the problems. I don't care who it is out there giving their opinions, it is not right for an American to go to another country and speak negatively about the U.S. and it's administration during a time of war. We all know that the people who were rounded up and put in prisons were people who were caught fighting, enemy combatants, not people who were in the country illegally because their green cards were expired. While I might not agree that they should be left there indefinitely, I don't see the problem with them being out of commission for the time being.

As far as the comment about the Patriot Act, I read it word for word and the "empty FEMA camps" is not even mentioned in the Act; in fact, just to make sure my memory wasn't deserting me, I pulled the Act up and did a word search - FEMA is not even mentioned. Another trick of the left, assuming people out there won't bother checking the facts, lol.

Also, I'd like to point out that the whole "wire tapping" by the Government is something that Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter did also, but you don't hear much about that in the media, do you?

The whole "majority of the country" comment once again is spin. The majority of this country want to be safe, are in support of the war and have real problems with the lack of border security in this country. Of course, you won't see those figures in the LA papers, or the New York Times or 99% of all other media outlets in this country. Just as you won't see any reports on the good that's being done in Iraq, just the tragedy.

I know that I am grateful that GW was in power when 911 happened. Al Gore, since losing the presidency, has become more and more shrill and nonsensical, right along with Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean. Listening to him I personally don't think he would have been able to deal with what needed to be done.

I don't agree with everything this administration has done, but I believe when you look at the difficult position Bush has been in with taking over a country in recession, thanks to the Clinton Administration, and 9 months after being elected having a major terror attack hit this country, he's done one hell of a good job, especially considering the fact that the left has made it their life mission to bring him down. They really need to start concentrating on the issues of today and stop the Bush bashing while offering absolutely no solutions for the problems of this country. More and more people are migrating to the right because the left has become almost comical in their desperate attempts to "get something" on Bush. The whole world sees this!!

Anyway, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.....

First of all, I want to thank you all for this discussion without the usual name calling that goes on in the forums. I have gained new respect for them. We obviously disagree, and I don't think we can change each others opinions, mainly because we obtain our news from different sources. I do however respect your opinions. With that said, my main question, which I may not have made all that clear, is...Whether you agree with what Al Gore said or not, do you think, morally, that he should be over there bashing America and their policies and making people even more angry at America than they already are? I think this could and will eventually lead to more violence and/or terrorist attacks and that maybe he should've considered that before making his statements(which I still believe is for political gain).

Who listens to Al Gore?

Unfortunately more people than should!!

In the UK, we had many years of a mainland bombing campaign by the IRA. We never had a mass internment camp for Irish sounding people. we detained people strictly under the limits of law, and allowed them legal representation. Trials were held, and yes, there were miscarriages of justice, but not in the wholesale fashion the Bush administration hes perpetrated.
OK, the US was inexperienced in dealing with terrorism (or so they claim), but cant people learn from the experiences of other nations?