Conservative Minister loses 1/5th of congregation for separating church and state.

QUOTE OF THE FREAKING YEAR in Boldface!


Evangelical Pastor Rattles Flock

MAPLEWOOD, Minn. “Like most pastors who lead thriving evangelical megachurches, the Rev. Gregory A. Boyd was asked frequently to give his blessing “and the church’s” to conservative political candidates and causes.

The requests came from church members and visitors alike: Would he please announce a rally against gay marriage during services? Would he introduce a politician from the pulpit? Could members set up a table in the lobby promoting their anti-abortion work? Would the church distribute “voters” guides” that all but endorsed Republican candidates? And with the country at war, please couldn’t the church hang an American flag in the sanctuary?

After refusing each time, Mr. Boyd finally became fed up, he said. Before the last presidential election, he preached six sermons called “The Cross and the Sword” in which he said the church should steer clear of politics, give up moralizing on sexual issues, stop claiming the United States as a “Christian nation” and stop glorifying American military campaigns.

“When the church wins the culture wars, it inevitably loses,” Mr. Boyd preached. “When it conquers the world, it becomes the world. When you put your trust in the sword, you lose the cross.”

Mr. Boyd says he is no liberal. He is opposed to abortion and thinks homosexuality is not God’s ideal. The response from his congregation at Woodland Hills Church here in suburban St. Paul “packed mostly with politically and theologically conservative, middle-class evangelicals” was passionate. Some members walked out of a sermon and never returned. By the time the dust had settled, Woodland Hills, which Mr. Boyd founded in 1992, had lost about 1,000 of its 5,000 members.

But there were also congregants who thanked Mr. Boyd, telling him they were moved to tears to hear him voice concerns they had been too afraid to share.

Continued at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/us/30pastor.html?ex=1154923200&en=37b905c07e496400&ei=5070&emc=eta1

The quote is too good. SHAMELESS BUMP! READ ME OR BE DOOOOOMED!

another shameless bump

I read that this weekend, thanks for posting it here

I figure that fifth is a chunk he could afford to lose; despite his personal views I admire him for his unwillingness to compromise his faith for the benefit of politicians.

Separation of Church and State benefits the church, too.

yeah. right or wrong, there's something to be said for stating what you believe to be true when it may cost you.

Indeed, I think the ability to do so is a real test of someone's faith.

Second only to being able to understand your own faith in context with the world around you in a manner that assimilates facts.

Anyone ever read the book "Profiles in Courage", by a guy

I wont name names here JFK.

His actions sort of reminded me of that book.

Its about people that did what they believed to be right even though it was not the most popular choice.

It is as if all those people "know" that the separation of church and state is the way it is supposed to be, but just kind of go with a "but this is whats going on right now mentality."

On the flip side, what the congregation may not realize is that not doing this--and instead bowing to their demands--could have cost in other ways...namely the church's tax-exempt status (which I am assuming it has).

I wonder if, in an alternate universe, there is an article about how the pastor lost 1/5 of his congregation after instituting an admission fee for Sunday services.

Also, now that the word about this particular church is spreading, there's a big possibility that folks from neighboring churches who are uncomfortable with their pastors toeing the political line will migrate over. I don't think the 20% loss in congregation is a long-term situation for Rev. Boyd.

Aye. I'm not Christian but I'm whoring out his ministry to people I know who are.

What many, many people seem not to understand about the church/state issue is that there are both liberal and conservative churches who involve themselves in politics, and both liberal and conservative churches who hate the involvement of religion in politics/government.

I posted a link to that article in another thread earlier today also. A friend had sent it to me earlier in the week. It was definitely the most inspiring religion related one I've read in a very long time. If all religious people were as fair minded as that guy I'd have little reason to ever speak out against religion. Bravo.

Most are, at least where I live.

I'll be a lot happier when moderate Christians start standing up to the fundamentalists. All anyone has to do is look at the treatment an atheist receives when standing up for church/state separation and related issues to see how far we have to go in that regard. I like to think there's still hope though, and the bravery of that minister is a big step in the right direction. The world could use a lot more like him.

Agreed. You do seem to have a bigger problem with it there than the rest of us do.

The 80% who stuck with the minister give me at least a little comfort and back up what I have always felt, which is that most christians (even fundamentalists) are reasonable people. The problem is that for the most part, its the 20% who usually set the agenda and define things for the rest. It's good to see that trend bucked for once. I only wish it happened more often.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I don't know whether to hug him for promoting secular idealism or slap him for perpetuating the myth of a supernatural creator.

~Ulrika~

Hug him for promoting the separation of church and state. As long as the state and all church are kept separate, people can hope to escape the myth.

Fundamentalist christians are in no way different to fundamentalist Moslems. BOTH groups are little more than terrorists and some are terrorists trying to FORCE other people to their beliefs. It is a shame that 3/4 of this worlds ills are caused by these people ( Crusades, Inquisition, Holocaust, clinic bombings and suicide bombers) , Im sure God is sitting in heaven saying "uh uh , thats not it."

How is it that two religions who profess Love and kindness be reposnsible for this.

Because both belief systems have somewhere, in a book, that they can kill people for X reason.

So they go kill people, for whatever reason they feel like, convincing themselves and others they're doing it for X reason.

And you know the X reason was not part of the original draft
but an amendment, in most cases.

Yes, and usualyl just before an invasion.

As far as I'm concerned it's OK to do both, Ulrika!

way to be hypocritical there Ulrika, hug him for following his beleifs and then smack him for following his beliefs? Contradict yourself much?

It's not hypocritical. You can appreciate the practice of some parts of a belief system and decry the rest.

I don't want to slap the guy, though I really have to wonder why homosexuality seems to worry Christians so much (considering that Jesus didn't say anything about it, really).