Judge Says No to ID

Make yourself comfortable. That's a long wait you're looking at.

Why won't you answer my question?

Why won't you seek the knowledge yourself?

~Ulrika~

Not entirely true. The 18'th and 19'th centuries saw the rise of Atheism: something previously completely unknown.

In 399 B.C.E, Socrates was condemned by a 500-man Athenian jury on vague charges, including an accusation that he was guilty of "not worshiping the gods whom the state worships." His predeccessor, Anaxagoras, likewise was sentenced to death for teaching that the sun and moon are natural objects, not deities, but he fled into exile. Protagoras was banished from Athens for saying he didn't know if the gods exist. His books were burned, and he perished at sea.

In the year 385, the Spanish aescetic Priscillian was executed for holding an unorthodox view of the Trinity and other variant beliefs.

In 415, the great woman scientist Hypatia, head of the renowned Alexandrian Ligrary, was beaten to death by Christian monks who considered her a pagan.

Around 550 at Constantinople, the Byzantine Emporor Justinian executed multitudes to impose Christian orthodoxy.

After the turn of the millenium, the killing of nonconformists soared in Europe. Popes waged gory "internal crusades" against "heretical" Christians such as the Albigenses, Waldensians, and Apostolic Brethren. This led to establishment of the Inquisition, which tortured and burned the unorthodox. St. Thomas Aquinas declared that if it was proper to execute conterfeiters, "there is much more reason for excommunicating and even putting to death one convicted of heresy."

After the Reformation, both Catholic and Protestant authorities killed "blasphemers" such as the physician Michael Servetus, who discovered the pulmonary circulation of blood. He was burned alive in John Calvin's Geneva in 1553 for doubting the Trinity.

Matthew Hamount went to the stake in 1579 at Norwich, England, after priests accused him of saying that the Bible "is but foolishness, a mere fable; that Christ is not God or the savior of the world, but a mere man..."

The Roman Inquisition burned philosopher Giordano Bruno in 1600 for contendingt that the earth circles the sun, and that the universe is infinite. A generation later, the Inquisition sentenced Galileo to life confinement for writing his belief that the earth moves.

In 1697, a young man was burned at Edinburgh for ridiculing the bible.

in 1776, A French teenager, Chevalier de La Barre, was beheaded on charges that he had marred a crucifix, sung irreligious songs, and worn his hat while a religious procession passed.

For every nonconformist executed, hundreds were jailed, tortured, fined, flogged, censured, banished, or ostracized. Understandably, few people dared voice scepticism.

"2000 Years of Disbelief - Famous People With the Courage to Doubt" - James A. Haught

Why won't you defend the position you so vehemently promote?

By the way, heard of MAPS?

Yikes. I can't believe you just posted several pictures from "gospelcom.net". I make it a rule to never debate science with individuals who use religious sites as references.

~Ulrika~

Why won't you defend the position you so vehemently promote?

Scared?

Because it's easier not to answer the hard questions and instead make rude comebacks to the easy ones, and then say "Look, I won!"

I'll save everyone the bother of a quick google search: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Yes. I find it very scary.

~Ulrika~

Because you're not looking to learn, you're looking for data to cast doubt over.

~Ulrika~

And I find you to be one of the most discriminatory voices I've ever encountered.


You're not looking to teach, you're looking for propaganda to catechize the masses.

I dare you to read the MAPS overview pages. Now that's a real long-shot.

Manuscript evidence for the Bible... I'm sorry, was the existence of the Bible in doubt? Or bibles, rather, as those manuscripts do not always agree. There are also a number of copies of, say, the Bhaghavad Gita around, too, you know. I look forward to hanging with Ganesh before I reincarnate.

Archaeological evidence... uh. Already admitted the Bible does, in fact, exist. I don't recall claiming that it was not written (at least in large part) during the time-period in which the supernatural events it depicts were supposed to be occurring. So... the Bible is real, in the sense that it exists as a set of documents, check. The Bible is pretty old, check.

Prophecy... okay, I was trying to take this seriously. Until now.

(Parenthetically, 'Messiah to be of the Seed of David... I love that one. You do realize that there are two genealogies given for Christ in the New Testament, right? And they conflict. And they both trace his lineage through Joseph. I'll leave others to figure that one out for me.)

Statistics... damned if I see any statistics on that page at all.

Here are some links for you:http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/empirical

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

I read them. I'm not sure why you wanted us to read them, but I read them. I mean... I've seen more convincing evidence of Divine Providence on the back of cereal boxes.

I dare you to read the MAPS overview pages. Now that's a real long-shot.

That's like asking me to watch "Ghost Hunters" on the SciFi channel. You'd have better luck peddling your imaginary god, half truths, and pseudoscience to someone with a weaker constitution.

~Ulrika~

Then you've given up any right to ever ridicule and/or cajole us about reviewing one of your own Web references.

This assumes a symmetry between our positions, which frankly does not exist. My citations don't draw from the pool of religious and mythological propaganda.

~Ulrika~

But the issue of ID is of a theological bent.