ACLU Sues Over Law Banning Protests At Soldiers' Funerals
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 13:47
From: Corvus Drake Yes, but you're making the same mistake that the local government made, and executing the very reason that people are so easily manipulated by the government in the first place.
You have a personal stake in this, so it's an emotional issue.
A: "Well, we have this bill that limits protestors from showing up at military funerals to claim people dying in the war do so because of gay people".
B:"Shit! SIGN THE BILL!"
It's not that simple. This is a case of from-the-hip legislation. Noone disagrees that a private funeral should be kept, indeed, private. The law is just very badly written, has too much room for abuse, and would be better fit to harassment or privacy law instead of peacekeeping law. Noone's disputing the reasoning behind the law, just the manner in which that spirit is implemented in the law itself. It needs amending, or to be scrapped and replaced with one from an appropriate legal venue. I accept that argument.
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 13:51
From: Cristiano Midnight The very point is that you are a bit too close to this issue to see it objectively anyway. People are going to see it differently, and you just seem to be getting pissed off at anyone who disagrees that this law is the best way to handle it. The ACLU is doing their part in the system, you may not like that they are standing up for freedom of speech here, but you would appreciate their efforts in another situation if it were something you believed in. The bad guys here are the damn Phelps family, not your friends, Lecktor, and not the ACLU. As written, the law is too broad to even be effective. You all may be perfectly correct. It just ires me that the ACLU would pick this up only after being harangued by the Phelps group. Some of these states have had the laws in place for almost a year now.WBC realized they had bitten off more than they could chew once the PGR movement grew so huge. As to me being pissed at my friends, I believe I only stated that I was disappointed in one of them being Introvert. I retracted my statement about Juro's argument and have yet to fly off the handle. I'll tell ya, being part of the PGR I am dedicated to the way we handle ourselves. However, were it my child's funeral and these asshats showed up, I guarantee you I would react differently. That goes for any protestor at my kid's funeral.
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Neehai Zapata
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05-02-2006 13:54
Okay, I may get banned for this one as well. (sometimes my speech is considered to colorful)
To even imply that picketing the funerals of the dead is a constitution right to free speech is the MOST ASSININE THING I have heard in my life. That is such stupid fucking logic that it makes me want to shove forks into my eyes to offset the pain of the that thought.
You do not have a "right" to protest a funeral. Funerals are private events. If you aren't fucking invited, go the fuck home. There is absolutely no benefit to this level of "free speech". They are protesting the dead who are strangely unable to defend themselves.
What next? Are they within their rights to protest a 5 year olds birthday party?
Phelps has been allowed to roam for far to fucking long. It does piss me off a little bit for it to have to be a soldier before people started having a problem with it. When it was just those fucking faggots no one seemed to care. (but that is another thread)
I support the ACLUs right to challenge the law. They have the right to challenge any law. Laws should be challenged to make sure they will hold up and serve the intended purpose.
However, you have to be completely fucked in the head to think that protesting dead people at their own funeral is a constitutional right to free speech.
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Neehai Zapata
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05-02-2006 13:58
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Damnit this thread has ruined my afternoon. I had no idea people who thought like this were able to walk aroud without supervision.
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Okay, I think it is out of my system now. I may be back though.
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 13:58
From: Neehai Zapata Okay, I may get banned for this one as well. (sometimes my speech is considered to colorful)
To even imply that picketing the funerals of the dead is a constitution right to free speech is the MOST ASSININE THING I have heard in my life. That is such stupid fucking logic that it makes me want to shove forks into my eyes to offset the pain of the that thought.
You do not have a "right" to protest a funeral. Funerals are private events. If you aren't fucking invited, go the fuck home. There is absolutely no benefit to this level of "free speech". They are protesting the dead who are strangely unable to defend themselves.
What next? Are they within their rights to protest a 5 year olds birthday party?
Phelps has been allowed to roam for far to fucking long. It does piss me off a little bit for it to have to be a soldier before people started having a problem with it. When it was just those fucking faggots no one seemed to care. (but that is another thread)
I support the ACLUs right to challenge the law. They have the right to challenge any law. Laws should be challenged to make sure they will hold up and serve the intended purpose.
However, you have to be completely fucked in the head to think that protesting dead people at their own funeral is a constitutional right to free speech. I like it when you get colorful! I too regret that it took this to get action against the WBC. I don't think it was no one cared as it was not hugely publicized. I had never heard of him til he started doing the soldier funeral thing. Once aware, I made my own research on him and was completely enraged at his hateful history.
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Cristiano Midnight
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Join date: 17 May 2003
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05-02-2006 13:58
From: Lecktor Hannibal You all may be perfectly correct. It just ires me that the ACLU would pick this up only after being harangued by the Phelps group. Some of these states have had the laws in place for almost a year now.WBC realized they had bitten off more than they could chew once the PGR movement grew so huge.
As to me being pissed at my friends, I believe I only stated that I was disappointed in one of them being Introvert. I retracted my statement about Juro's argument and have yet to fly off the handle. I'll tell ya, being part of the PGR I am dedicated to the way we handle ourselves. However, were it my child's funeral and these asshats showed up, I guarantee you I would react differently. That goes for any protestor at my kid's funeral. Believe me, I have all the respect in the world for what you are doing. I saw a segment on CNN about Phelps and also the PGR, and I was horrified by the level of hatred and moved to tears by the selflessness of people like yourself who are helping to protect these families. For me, I come from a country where freedom of speech is not the ideal it is here so it is something I cherish, and also, as I see more and more of the freedoms we enjoy being stripped away for this cause or that cause, in the name of fighting this group or that group, I am very wary of anything that is passed on the back of such an emotionally charged issue - those are often times that legislators take a sled ride right down the slippery slope. I am with you, if this were the funeral of someone I loved and it was disrupted by people like that, I would probably end up in jail over what I would do to protect them from that kind of additional pain. I can't imagine the grief that having someone protest at your loved one's funeral would be like. I just don't think these laws are going to help stop it. What I don't understand is why they can't make harassment laws stick to these sick fucks.
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
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05-02-2006 13:59
If you really think about it, having the ACLU looking at these laws, might make the lawmakers make these laws more specific and concise. Less loopholes for the likes of Phelps to find. Which actually would be a good thing.
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Neehai Zapata
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05-02-2006 14:01
FUCK!
And another thing. Actions in this world do not exist without intent.
The intent of the protestors at these funerals is to inflict emotional distress and harm upon families and friends of those who have died. They attempt to inflict this pain in order to coerce people into doing what they want or believeing what they want.
That is NOT FUCKING free speech! That is a targetted attack on a family. One could even call it terrorism.
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Cristiano Midnight
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05-02-2006 14:01
Lecktor,
One thing that is unclear - if these fucktards violated the law and still showed up, and your group showed up to stop them, would you both be in violation of it? Based on how broad the law is, it would seem so.
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Sally Rosebud
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05-02-2006 14:01
From: Cristiano Midnight What I don't understand is why they can't make harassment laws stick to these sick fucks. It's cause the whole damn family is made up of lawyers!
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Neehai Zapata
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05-02-2006 14:02
From: Cristiano Midnight Lecktor,
One thing that is unclear - if these fucktards violated the law and still showed up, and your group showed up to stop them, would you both be in violation of it? Based on how broad the law is, it would seem so. The riders are invited guests. This scenario would not apply.
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
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05-02-2006 14:03
Cristiano, the PGR are invited by the families to be there.
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Cristiano Midnight
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05-02-2006 14:03
From: Sally Rosebud If you really think about it, having the ACLU looking at these laws, might make the lawmakers make these laws more specific and concise. Less loopholes for the likes of Phelps to find. Which actually would be a good thing. Yes the more narrow and specific any law is, the easier it is to enforce and are better able to stand up to legal challenges. Often times, these laws are written so broadly because they are rushed through in an effort to quickly try to stop a problem. The intentions are noble, but you know what they say about intentions.
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Corvus Drake
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05-02-2006 14:03
From: Sally Rosebud It's cause the whole damn family is made up of lawyers! Thus the foundation for the other thread.... Something that was forgotten long ago was the art of assassinating people with poisoned fruit. Communion wine, anyone?
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Cristiano Midnight
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05-02-2006 14:04
From: Sally Rosebud Cristiano, the PGR are invited by the families to be there. That is good to know.
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 14:04
From: Cristiano Midnight Lecktor,
One thing that is unclear - if these fucktards violated the law and still showed up, and your group showed up to stop them, would you both be in violation of it? Based on how broad the law is, it would seem so. Actually not. As noted in our mission statement we only show up when invited by the family. Please visit the site www.patriotguard.org to learn a little more about us. I'm rather proud of the way we do it and we have actually been declined before and had the phelps show up. Nothing we could do about it. The fact that we are invited guests and not protestors with a protest permit, excludes.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Cristiano Midnight
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05-02-2006 14:04
From: Sally Rosebud It's cause the whole damn family is made up of lawyers! THey barely have teeth, how did they get through law school?
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Corvus Drake
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05-02-2006 14:07
In the south, we have other uses for people who have no teeth. Talents that might get them through lawschool.....
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 14:07
From: Corvus Drake In the south, we have other uses for people who have no teeth. Talents that might get them through lawschool..... 
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Phoenix Psaltery
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05-02-2006 14:08
From: Cristiano Midnight What I don't understand is why they can't make harassment laws stick to these sick fucks. From: Sally Rosebud It's cause the whole damn family is made up of lawyers! I don't often subscribe to this point of view, but in this case: Kill em' all. [The Phelps crew, that is.] Let God sort 'em out.  P2 |
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Cristiano Midnight
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05-02-2006 14:08
From: Corvus Drake In the south, we have other uses for people who have no teeth. Talents that might get them through lawschool..... Did you ever see the movie Poltergeist..II I think, maybe III - with that creepy old man who kept showing up at the house? That is what Fred Phelps reminds me of - he seems almost undead. I can't understand how such hatred not only exists in him, but his entire family.
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Corvus Drake
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05-02-2006 14:15
Perhaps he "edumacated" them in the same manner they got through law school?
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Lecktor Hannibal
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05-02-2006 14:31
For the record, as unbelievable as it may seem 'Ol Phreddy was a lawyer himself. Managed to get himself disbarred though. Read all about his history here.
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
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05-02-2006 14:53
OK, Michael Moore needs to bring his Sodomobile back around to ol' Fred - it was the only thing I ever saw in my entire life that made Fred Phelps leave anywhere. Of course at the time, he was only picketing gays in general.... still - he left!  From: someone Michael Moore's Sodomobile, a segment on the first season of his series The Awful Truth, had been a hilarious send off to the likes of the Reverend Fred Phelps. Moore and his merry band of Gay men and Lesbians has broken sodomy laws in 1998 in several states in the Sodomobile, an appropriately decked out pink Winnebago, highlighting the stupidity and hypocrisy of these laws.
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Sally Rosebud
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05-02-2006 15:01
From: someone
Wikipedia:
By Phelps's own admission, he never dated, and had no interest in members of the opposite sex.
Hmmm...very interesting.... 
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