Atheist Propaganda Effectiveness

Your atheism just makes me all the more baffled by your statements, Suzanne. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me your assertion is that atheists should hide their atheism because it's a hinderance towards other positions that may be important to them. Can't you see what's wrong with that? To my ears it sounds like you're advocating not speaking out against bigotry because it will result in more bigotry. I'm so very tired of living in a society where beating up on atheists in just taken for granted as par for the course... so much so that even some atheists recommend hiding our true nature and what we believe so the inevitable backlash doesn't taint other things we feel are important.

It's worth noting that this "oppressed atheist" thing is much more prevalent in the US than in many other parts of the world. Coming here from England... well over there it simply isn't an issue.

Passive aggressive ramblings that finish with an odd criticism on general atheistic resource allocation. Don't quit your day job, kid.

~Ulrika~

I cut and pasted it from wikipedia.com... english... search propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

I actually agree with alot of what you said. A person's belief system does not indicate his intelligence or ability to reason. Every person believes in something that may or may not be true including the atheist.

I also agree that calling a person a moron is not a good method of promoting one's beliefs. I don't think many atheist are out to convert people though. I would think that the name calling is a sign of anger without the objective of converting the person to atheism. I don't think this gets a person anywhere, but I would assume Christians doing the same thing would also be at a point of not caring if the other person converts. When the person gets to the point of verbal or physical attack, I assume they are releasing anger and constructive discussion is not the only objective. I've been angry myself and name called before, but I think you are right that it is pointless if the objective really is the promoting of one's beliefs.

Now while I do think Chip is right that one should not be ashamed of who they are and hide it, what you give is good political advice. It is good to pick your battles if your objective is to change the way others think. Religion is one of those topics a person should normally assume isn't going to change overnight in another person's mind. Most religion is not based off of logical reasoning, so sitting there and trying to convince a person through a single conversation that one of their strongest beliefs is wrong is most likely futile.

Identifying oneself as an atheist is only a taboo politically, because the predominant religion (Christians in the U.S.) have a hard time putting support in people they see as not supporting their religious agenda. It is common knowledge that a presidential canidate in the U.S. would commit political suicide by not at least pretending to be Christian. It is not just Christians that do this, other areas of the world dominated by other religions have the same issue. I would assume that if America was predominantly atheist it would be political suicide to not at least pretend to be atheist oneself.

The thing is that not everyone is out to change the world. Sometimes people just want others to know who they are, and what a person believes in is part of who they are. It shouldn't be such a drastic thing to show people that you believe in something others around you don't. Adults need to learn that the content of a person doesn't change based on what they do and don't believe. It may be a while till the masses will learn this, but at least individuals can start to learn to tolerate each other.

*sigh.... Another religion/philosophy, clamoring for attention. I'm waiting for the Shintoists, Zoastrians, Christian Scientists, Social Darwinists, and Stoicists to speak up.

What about Robotic Papists?

Jeeze.. where does one start.

Simply put, your argument is built on the fallacy that Atheist spend "time, effort and material resources opposing a belief in God..."

What resources? It takes zero effort or resources to be an Atheist.. There is no bible to buy, no weekly meetings to attend, no institution to tithe 10% of my earnings to... and the list goes on ad nauseam.

Your entire post is ridiculous and overly presumptuous.

Briana Dawson

Actually Chip, you forgot the real faith keeper: If you are not with god, you are against god and therefor in the grip of satan and your soul is eternally damned in the afterlife.

The baffling part is that this god is worshipped by the 3 major religions around the world (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) differently. And each sect believes themselves to be right and the other wrong.

It's utterly useless to debate on any theist v. atheist topic. Especially inthe most religious country in the world (the u.s.a). Religion is a polarizing subject and rarely does anyone leave the discussion saying to themselves "hmm i believe", or "hmm Im abandoning my faith".

bleh

Briana Dawson

Hmm, thats odd. That wasn't the message I read. It seemed to make sense to me.

What I got was: Do what is most important to you in the most efficient way possible.

If defending yourself against intrusion by theists is the most important thing in the world to you then you should do that with gusto and realize that you may have to compromise some other ideals you hold.

It sounded to me more like an explanation of why there aren't more evangeical athieist ringing doorbells.

What was so horrible about what she said? Are you upset because defending athiesm isn't every atheists primary goal in life?

Hi Briana,

I think what SuezanneC said was "Resources spent by atheists promoting the cause of disbelief are resources not spent doing something else" meaning atheists who actively promote being an atheist.

Her point was that if one is to use one's time and effort, it should not be wasteful. Her example of an Atheist with a political agenda made the point rather well, imho. If one believes there is no God, why waste time convincing others to believe as you do? What benefit could there be? On the other hand, if that atheist spent time educating people on the need for political reform, the effort isn't wasted, and a positive outcome might be realized.

This is really silly though.

If you're an atheist, then this has no impact on you at all. When you die, you're dead. There's no afterlife if you're an atheist.

Threats of what will happen to you, in an afterlife that you don't believe in, aren't really effective. I never understood atheists that get upset when threatened with hell.



The idea of an afterlife is not common among the abrahamic religions... Also, those three religions are only the abrahamic religions... You're kind of missing some other major players, like hinduism, buddhism and taoism...



There are more religious countries in the world.

I think what was so horrible about it is that it's true. Being open about one's atheism is a sure-fire way to undermine whatever else the atheist is trying to accomplish. We're excluded from government (and hence, representation), and a majority of atheists still hide who they are in order to avoid repurcussions. It can be career suicide. Atheists are still where gays were fifty years ago. That's never going to change unless atheists start having the courage to stand up for what they believe and speak out against such things. I may have read more into Suzanne's comments than was there. I just feel strongly that it's time for atheists to stop being so accomodating.

Ironicly i'm more concerned about revealing my homosexuality than I am about my athism. But admittedly, the people I interact with most are generally pretty blase' about religion, so I don't really feel pressure that way. If I were involved with a broader cross section of the public on a regular basis I think my attitudes would probably be different.

Ya, I think that homosexuality is still WAY behind Atheism in terms of acceptance.

I think Chip tends to greatly exaggerate the 'persecution" suffered by Atheists, especially in the US. Religion simply isn't that big a part of life for the average American.

No admitted atheist could ever be elected to a high office. There are already gays in the house of representatives. Atheists are routinely discriminated against in the workplace. I know atheists who are forced to participate in group prayer at their workplace. Failure to comply would put their job, or chances for promotion in jeapordy. I am not exaggerating in the least.

Brilliantly accurate view of things, in my opinion.

I think I just had an epiphany about epiphanies.

Please pass the coffee, or at least some Earl Grey, and keep the discussion rolling...

As an aside, I was a big fan of the Atheists for Jesus movement. The main website is sadly down, but i found an archived version of it here.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The U.S.A. is rated as the most religious country in the world, with Saudi Arabia second. One of the facts you learn as a poli-sci graduate.

Briana Dawson

How do you figure? Buddhism isnt even a religion. The most prominent religions in world history are: Christianity, Islamic, Judaism.

It really sounds like you disagree with me but have no legs to stand on.

Briana Dawson

How exactly are you defining "most religious"?

I mean, you have countries like Iran, where the government is actually based upon religious law.....



Those three religions are all essentially just branches of the same religion.. that's why they're referred to as the Abrahamic religions. They all stem from God's deal with Abraham.

Simply because they are the ones that perhaps you are most familiar with, does not make them the world's most prominent religions.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

As you can see here, in terms of number of people practicing a religion, Judaism doesn't even come CLOSE to the top...

The largest religions, in order, are:
1) Christianity
2) Islam
3) Hinduism

Buddhism comes in at 6th, with 5.9% of the world... While Jews only consist of about 0.2% of the population. Interestingly enough, there are actually more Atheists than jews.

And the notion that Buddhism "isn't even a religion" is silly.

*chuckles* what kind of job involves group prayer? I mean, does he work for a church or something?

Religion has never been an issue at any place I've ever worked.. I tend to not even know what religion other people are.. it doesn't concern me.

Sorry, but I think that comparing the persecution of atheists to the persecution of homosexuals trivializes the very REAL issues that homosexuals have to deal with on a daily basis.

For instance, I feel uncomfortable around gay men... Not to the degree that I hate them, and want to bash their heads in.. but it's kind of "icky" to me. I realize that this is irrational, and that it's something I just need to get over.. It's my problem, not theirs. But, a problem exists. (please don't flame me, all you gay people! I try to improve myself!)

I've never felt anything approaching that based on someone's religion.

This really sums up the postings I've seen of yours of late. "Different from my personal experience = Not important; something to ignore or mock".

Seriously, what kind of job involves group prayer? Are you forced to pray at work?

Employers who refuse to hire people based on their religion or sexual orientation tend to be placing themselves at a disadvantage because they are reducing their access to qualified people.

But you're gay, right? (If not, I don't mean to offend... I had thought you had posted you were) If you are, which aspect of your lifestyle do you feel you catch more flack for? Being gay, or being an atheist?

I simply do not believe that atheism carries the same kind of stigma in our society as being gay does.

As neither, what are you basing that belief on?

And no, I'm unfortunately straight.