Second Life Forums Archive - Brits: Why the red flowers in lapels?

Caliandris Pendragon

Waiting in the light

Join date: 12 Feb 2004

Posts: 643

11-11-2005 11:50

Although the red poppy is ubiquitous around this time, there are also white poppies, dsold by the peace movement. These seem to enrage the supporters of the British Legion, however, so wearing a red and a white poppy is the fashion around here.

I was nearly knocked off my chair by the local RAF sounding a cannon at 11am...thought the sky had fallen in for a moment....
Cali

Dianne Mechanique

Back from the Dead

Join date: 28 Mar 2005

Posts: 2,648

11-12-2005 12:59

From: Myrrh Massiel

...no, vestalia's right - as absurd as it may seem to folks hailing from those nations more directly involved in its theatre, the great war is largely lost to obscurity in the 'states, and its attendant traditions doubly so...

...i'm personally long familiar with poppies and their connection to remembrace day through snippets of music and literature i stumbled upon on my own, but they're all extremely esoteric references by the standards of american culture...having grown up mostly in the 'states, i can assure you that the average american-on-the-street would have no clue toward the significance of a poppy worn on one's lapel, and believe it or not, until garnet psaltry gave me an electronic poppy in-world yesterday, i'd never actually seen a poppy before in my life...

...i know you're half-teasing here, but really shouldn't innocent ignorance be greeted with kind-hearted education rather than contemptuous reprimand?..this is simply an artifact of differing cultures, no more, no less: had vestalia been studying literature, i'd call yours a valid criticism, but otherwise it's a quite natural oversight for an american still studying history...

...actually, that's really only the case within the commonwealth and her allies in the great war - the greater balance of the earth's cultures might find such a statement rather anglo-centric...in fact just this morning i've been researching remembrance day, not because i'm unfamiliar with its significance, but because it's so culturally alien to my RL experiences that i still have no idea whether or not it would be appropriate for me to wear a virtual poppy in-world...

Hmmm...

Well I certainly didn't intend to be offensive, sometimes no matter how many smilies one uses it comes over that way I guess.

My sincere apologies to anyone who though I was being an ass, it's just that the person did say that they were a European History major and had specifically studied the period during which the most pivotal event happened to be .... World War I.

Perhaps they are an American and what is at fault is merely the American curriculum on European History.

It's not just the Commonwealth that uses the poppy as a remembrance in that way however, in fact the US used to do it also, (it stopped right around the time of the Second World War if I am not mistaken). Even if it was just the Commonwealth, at that particular point in history, that is over one third of the world.

Please try to understand that in my world, all my life, all my friends and all my relatives of any age spread over four countries and over 40 years would all be able to tell you the significance of the poppy in a heartbeat. I am thinking that the US is probably one of the only places that is "out of the loop" on this thing, but perhaps that is just my bias as you said.

I was really just having fun with my original "never heard of World War I?" statement, and I hope people realise that I was not trying to be strident or mean with the second one.

I will have to stand by the statement about the "degree" though.

If you *majored* in European History from 1860 to 1939 and you don't know about the poppies or flanders fields, then you should think about giving that degree back IMO. At the very least, avoid getting a job that requires you to use that degree outside of the US because if they left *that* out, who knows what else was missing.

Anyway, I'm really sorry.

Can I still use the "I'm sick" excuse?

_____________________

.
black
art furniture & classic clothing
===================
Black in Neufreistadt
Black @ ONE
Black @ www.SLBoutique.com

.

Vestalia Hadlee

Second Life Resident

Join date: 19 Oct 2004

Posts: 296

11-12-2005 14:00

Two days before the anniversary of the end of WWI, I learned that the red flower on British lapels is a poppy, a flower I've never seen before, and -- inspired by the McCrae poem -- is used in places I've never been to commerate that war as a whole.
I also learned that in Commonwealth nations, unlike America, remembrance of that war begins several days prior to the actual Armistice Day.
These are lovely traditions which I wish were practiced where I live.

What is important is the learning, regardless of what anyone might wish to believe or imply of me for having questions about things with which I'm unfamiliar.

Thank you for your responses.

Fairge Kinsella

Gravity isn't so serious!

Join date: 23 Oct 2004

Posts: 158

11-12-2005 14:29

Most interesting. This thread made me think about this for a few minutes.
- I grew up in Canada, and I remember making making cardboard poppies on Remembrance Day (11/11) all through elementary school, and having a minute of silence at 11:00am.
- When I visited Dieppe on a school tour as a teenager, we all bought poppies to leave on the ground.
- Where I lived in Ireland (arragh the neutrality <grin>

for 12 years, people actively do not celebrate on 11/11.
- I'm in Australia at the moment, and here there were no poppies or celebrations on 11/11
- I have a European degree in English and History, so I studied both WWI, and its associated poetry.

UNTIL THIS THREAD I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL ABOUT CELEBRATING A CEASEFIRE IN WWII

Arg.

_____________________

Gravity Works - Drop balls with physics on - Dowden (25, 88)
---
Gravitas - Available in green - Dowden (18, 206), Skyline Mall at Cass (80, 64), SL Boutique, SL Exchange

Garnet Psaltery

Walking on the Moon

Join date: 12 Apr 2005

Posts: 913

11-12-2005 14:45

The Remembrance Field is still open, and there'll be a short ceremony on Sunday starting just before 11 am UK time (3 am SLT). If anyone wishes to share some memories or say some words please arrive from 10:30 onwards or wait afterwards. I'll be there for an hour.

Donations to the Royal British Legion may be made via the website - www.poppy.org/ .

Grindlewald (111,33)

_____________________

Moopf Murray

Moopfmerising

Join date: 7 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,448

11-12-2005 14:56

From: Dianne Mechanique

A practice imortalised by probably the most famous poem of World War I and one of it's most famous battlefields.

I'm glad somebody mentioned this. The poem is Flanders' Fields by John McCrae and it's actually the reason the poppy was first used:

From: someone

In Flanders' Fields the Poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders' Fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high,
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though Poppies grow
In Flanders' Fields.

_____________________

Garnet Psaltery

Walking on the Moon

Join date: 12 Apr 2005

Posts: 913

11-12-2005 15:07

May I add a little poem I wrote while watching the Festival of Remembrance?

Remembrance Day

The poppies fell in silence.
All who stood beneath the flowers
Stood for those who could not,
Had no further life to give,
Had given all.
I saw how many fell and
Could not count them.
Think on that, the number.
All that love, all that love.

_____________________

Beclamide Neurocam

3.14159265

Join date: 8 Oct 2005

Posts: 70

11-12-2005 16:06

Copied from the BBC website:

From: someone

Scarlet poppies (popaver rhoeas) grow naturally in conditions of disturbed earth throughout Western Europe. The destruction brought by the Napoleonic wars of the early 19th Century, transformed bare land into fields of blood red poppies, growing around the bodies of the fallen soldiers.

In late 1914, the fields of Northern France and Flanders were once again ripped open as the First World War raged through Europe's heart.

The significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in the First World War and later conflicts.

I personally didn't know this but apparently there were White Poppies aswell a one point...

From: someone

The White Poppy
The white poppy was first introduced by the Women's Co-operative Guild in 1933 and was intended as a lasting symbol for peace and an end to all wars.

Worn on Armistice Day, now Remembrance Sunday, the white poppy was produced by the Co-operative Wholesale Society as the Royal British Legion had refused to be associated with its manufacture. While the white poppy was never intended to offend the memory of those who died in the Great war, many veterans felt that its significance undermined their contribution and the lasting meaning of the red poppy. Such was the seriousness of this issue that some women lost their jobs in the 1930s for wearing white poppies.

Brits: Why the red flowers in lapels?
Caliandris Pendragon Waiting in the light Join date: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 643	11-11-2005 11:50 Although the red poppy is ubiquitous around this time, there are also white poppies, dsold by the peace movement. These seem to enrage the supporters of the British Legion, however, so wearing a red and a white poppy is the fashion around here. I was nearly knocked off my chair by the local RAF sounding a cannon at 11am...thought the sky had fallen in for a moment.... Cali
Dianne Mechanique Back from the Dead Join date: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2,648	11-12-2005 12:59 From: Myrrh Massiel ...no, vestalia's right - as absurd as it may seem to folks hailing from those nations more directly involved in its theatre, the great war is largely lost to obscurity in the 'states, and its attendant traditions doubly so... ...i'm personally long familiar with poppies and their connection to remembrace day through snippets of music and literature i stumbled upon on my own, but they're all extremely esoteric references by the standards of american culture...having grown up mostly in the 'states, i can assure you that the average american-on-the-street would have no clue toward the significance of a poppy worn on one's lapel, and believe it or not, until garnet psaltry gave me an electronic poppy in-world yesterday, i'd never actually seen a poppy before in my life... ...i know you're half-teasing here, but really shouldn't innocent ignorance be greeted with kind-hearted education rather than contemptuous reprimand?..this is simply an artifact of differing cultures, no more, no less: had vestalia been studying literature, i'd call yours a valid criticism, but otherwise it's a quite natural oversight for an american still studying history... ...actually, that's really only the case within the commonwealth and her allies in the great war - the greater balance of the earth's cultures might find such a statement rather anglo-centric...in fact just this morning i've been researching remembrance day, not because i'm unfamiliar with its significance, but because it's so culturally alien to my RL experiences that i still have no idea whether or not it would be appropriate for me to wear a virtual poppy in-world... Hmmm... Well I certainly didn't intend to be offensive, sometimes no matter how many smilies one uses it comes over that way I guess. My sincere apologies to anyone who though I was being an ass, it's just that the person did say that they were a European History major and had specifically studied the period during which the most pivotal event happened to be .... World War I. Perhaps they are an American and what is at fault is merely the American curriculum on European History. It's not just the Commonwealth that uses the poppy as a remembrance in that way however, in fact the US used to do it also, (it stopped right around the time of the Second World War if I am not mistaken). Even if it was just the Commonwealth, at that particular point in history, that is over one third of the world. Please try to understand that in my world, all my life, all my friends and all my relatives of any age spread over four countries and over 40 years would all be able to tell you the significance of the poppy in a heartbeat. I am thinking that the US is probably one of the only places that is "out of the loop" on this thing, but perhaps that is just my bias as you said. I was really just having fun with my original "never heard of World War I?" statement, and I hope people realise that I was not trying to be strident or mean with the second one. I will have to stand by the statement about the "degree" though. If you majored in European History from 1860 to 1939 and you don't know about the poppies or flanders fields, then you should think about giving that degree back IMO. At the very least, avoid getting a job that requires you to use that degree outside of the US because if they left that out, who knows what else was missing. Anyway, I'm really sorry. Can I still use the "I'm sick" excuse? _____________________ . black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com .
Vestalia Hadlee Second Life Resident Join date: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 296	11-12-2005 14:00 Two days before the anniversary of the end of WWI, I learned that the red flower on British lapels is a poppy, a flower I've never seen before, and -- inspired by the McCrae poem -- is used in places I've never been to commerate that war as a whole. I also learned that in Commonwealth nations, unlike America, remembrance of that war begins several days prior to the actual Armistice Day. These are lovely traditions which I wish were practiced where I live. What is important is the learning, regardless of what anyone might wish to believe or imply of me for having questions about things with which I'm unfamiliar. Thank you for your responses.
Fairge Kinsella Gravity isn't so serious! Join date: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 158	11-12-2005 14:29 Most interesting. This thread made me think about this for a few minutes. - I grew up in Canada, and I remember making making cardboard poppies on Remembrance Day (11/11) all through elementary school, and having a minute of silence at 11:00am. - When I visited Dieppe on a school tour as a teenager, we all bought poppies to leave on the ground. - Where I lived in Ireland (arragh the neutrality <grin> for 12 years, people actively do not celebrate on 11/11. - I'm in Australia at the moment, and here there were no poppies or celebrations on 11/11 - I have a European degree in English and History, so I studied both WWI, and its associated poetry. UNTIL THIS THREAD I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL ABOUT CELEBRATING A CEASEFIRE IN WWII Arg. _____________________ Gravity Works - Drop balls with physics on - Dowden (25, 88) --- Gravitas - Available in green - Dowden (18, 206), Skyline Mall at Cass (80, 64), SL Boutique, SL Exchange
Garnet Psaltery Walking on the Moon Join date: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 913	11-12-2005 14:45 The Remembrance Field is still open, and there'll be a short ceremony on Sunday starting just before 11 am UK time (3 am SLT). If anyone wishes to share some memories or say some words please arrive from 10:30 onwards or wait afterwards. I'll be there for an hour. Donations to the Royal British Legion may be made via the website - www.poppy.org/ . Grindlewald (111,33) _____________________
Moopf Murray Moopfmerising Join date: 7 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,448	11-12-2005 14:56 From: Dianne Mechanique A practice imortalised by probably the most famous poem of World War I and one of it's most famous battlefields. I'm glad somebody mentioned this. The poem is Flanders' Fields by John McCrae and it's actually the reason the poppy was first used: From: someone In Flanders' Fields the Poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place: and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders' Fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe; To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high, If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though Poppies grow In Flanders' Fields. _____________________
Garnet Psaltery Walking on the Moon Join date: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 913	11-12-2005 15:07 May I add a little poem I wrote while watching the Festival of Remembrance? Remembrance Day The poppies fell in silence. All who stood beneath the flowers Stood for those who could not, Had no further life to give, Had given all. I saw how many fell and Could not count them. Think on that, the number. All that love, all that love. _____________________
Beclamide Neurocam 3.14159265 Join date: 8 Oct 2005 Posts: 70	11-12-2005 16:06 Copied from the BBC website: From: someone Scarlet poppies (popaver rhoeas) grow naturally in conditions of disturbed earth throughout Western Europe. The destruction brought by the Napoleonic wars of the early 19th Century, transformed bare land into fields of blood red poppies, growing around the bodies of the fallen soldiers. In late 1914, the fields of Northern France and Flanders were once again ripped open as the First World War raged through Europe's heart. The significance of the poppy as a lasting memorial symbol to the fallen was realised by the Canadian surgeon John McCrae in his poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy came to represent the immeasurable sacrifice made by his comrades and quickly became a lasting memorial to those who died in the First World War and later conflicts. I personally didn't know this but apparently there were White Poppies aswell a one point... From: someone The White Poppy The white poppy was first introduced by the Women's Co-operative Guild in 1933 and was intended as a lasting symbol for peace and an end to all wars. Worn on Armistice Day, now Remembrance Sunday, the white poppy was produced by the Co-operative Wholesale Society as the Royal British Legion had refused to be associated with its manufacture. While the white poppy was never intended to offend the memory of those who died in the Great war, many veterans felt that its significance undermined their contribution and the lasting meaning of the red poppy. Such was the seriousness of this issue that some women lost their jobs in the 1930s for wearing white poppies.

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Brits: Why the red flowers in lapels?