Intel 945GM driver upgrade = ten seconds to crash every time

Several have said that intel video chip sets are not as good as nvidia or ati cards. I just thought I'd back up their claims with this site.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

I am using a Dell 9400 laptop with the Intel 945GM graphics system and have had endless trouble with crashes since release 1.14

I was on the verge of giving up when I found a post suggesting using full screen mode. Press Alt+Enter once in the viewer - you may need to reset the screen size preference in video options. It has worked fine for me with no more crashes.

Go into the 3d Video settings in the Intel driver. Use the following options:-

Async Flip: Off
Triple Buffering: On
Flipping Policy: Flip
Depth buffer: 24 Bit
Force S3TC: Off
Force FXT1: Off
Driver Memory Footprint: Low
Texture Colour Depth: 32
Anisotropic Filteringn

That fixed it for me. The key seemed to be that the texture compression options must be off, and the memory footprint must be Low.

Seems a sensible collection of settings, with one exception, the Anisotropic Filtering: On ... that will cause greater slowdown of the clients ability to render.

does this also include the intel 945g ?? Is so i found my crash problem

I had the same issue when I updated the drivers for my 945GM .. the only solution I could find was a system restore to before I updated the driver ( since rollback was not an option) and I was back on track

The Intel chipset's ability to render is virtually non existant anyway - on doesn't crash, off does, take your pick

I don't have to.. I went for a real GC...

I see no reason to dumb down the OpenGL functions in SL so that those with a 'corporate chip' can use a platform specifically designed and stated as such, that doesn't support the Intel GC. That would require yet another seperate client, who is going to pay for that development, Intel?

I have a teeny laptop with a slow processor, very little RAM, and the same Intel chipset. SL crashed until I tuned my preferences etc. correctly, and now it is very stable, particularly when I use Nicholaz clients. I updated Intel drivers two weeks ago. I have run all viewers up until the most recent (voice) viewer just fine. I plan to wait until the next viewer update, and then try voice again.

I posted this in another similar thread. That person was running Vista, and if you are doing so you may wish to try not running in admin mode, which he claims freaked SL out.

I run in XP. The items with an asterisk were necessary to avoid crashing, the rest just made it run faster.

** Set SL to NOT run in a window (graphics tab, checkbox). Running fullscreen is easier on your graphics card. Then be sure the chosen resolution matches your actual Windows display settings. This helped me a lot.

-- In advanced graphics tab:
** Set graphics memory to lower than SL does ... I have it at 32MB. This one is important.
-- Set particle limit lower, i have at 1024
-- Set outfit composite limit lower, i have at 4

** In network tab, be sure your max network bandwidth is well within your actual link speed. If you flood your PC with textures, it will stall. And, having it too high just increases packet loss.

** On PC, make sure your antivirus is not invasive. Both Norton and McAfee have to simply be disabled while running SL. I use AVG now, no particular config settings, seems OK.

-- In general tab, disable online friend notifications (these little popups seemed to stress my chipset)

-- In graphics detail tab, lower sliders for items that you don't care that much about (I have tree resolution and flexi set really low)

** Make sure your graphics drivers are relatively recent (see Intel website). Intel has been continuously working on their (wretched) OpenGL implementation.

Good luck!

i've had similar issues with a core2duo 1.8 and an intel 945gm. even with pretty much everything turned down/off, the experience is terrible.

However thats exactly what you would expect from a graphics chipset that was not designed to handle serious 3d graphics, and a piece of software that cannot by definition be optimised. the combination of the two makes for crappy framerates.

Theres a simple solution. Use a graphics card that was designed for the job SL expects it to do. I built a system recently that should be crap compared to my nice shiny laptop with an intel 945gm, but it has a dedicated 3d accelerated graphics card and runs SL so much better I'll hang about a bit longer

(a lot of what most people probably think of as lag is really crap computer system. Some of the cheaper hardware you see on the market is serious poo that just sounds good coz it has the words INTEL CORE 2 DUO 1GB RAM OMFG!!!WOOT!!)

Guess what - lots of people would like to experience SL on whatever hardware they happen to have. If they can coax it into working, good. Threads like this are created by people who'd like to get it working on their hardware. Some of us are interested in helping those people with suggestions that will help them experience SL without replacing their entire laptop.

If you're not helping, check the attitude in and stfu.

Dude/dudette, I sympathize greatly with your inability to read. It must make life hard.

As the post above yours attempted to make clear, my experience with the same chipset as the OP and less than 1G of RAM, in a laptop, cannot be described as terrible. It is stable and looks fine -- true not as good as when I run it on a desktop with a real graphics card, but not bad enough to make me replace my laptop. Animations are smooth. Flexi floats. Things generally rez pretty quickly. I can even do combat -- of course, if the rest of the players all had game-tuned machines, I would always lose. BUT THEY DON'T.

Give the OP, and those others who are willing to use the adjustments LL has provided, a break.

It DOES mention on the "System Requirements" that Intel GMA is not supported.

Should say "If it works- count yourself lucky for now".

But, really, there is a reason things have requirements. I'm still waiting for the DOS or Windows 95 user to ask why it doesnt work.

The most you can do with these chipsets (other than curse Intel) is just try tweaking all the graphic settings, turn down particles, turn down view distance, set everything to bare basic & pray.

Turn off unnecessary background processes- skype, instant messengers, etc.

The method I used to use with video cards is: start at the lowest possible settings. Increase one or two. If it works, tweak another. You just keep going till it starts to faulter then knock it back a notch.

You are being totally unfair in your assumptions and rude to boot.

People on these forums are very helpful and do have a desire to try and help where possible.. but.. when the poster states without having firstly searched the forums, or even read the Systems Requirements which clearly state INTEL GC are NOT supported... and goes out an buys such a system, what do you expect us all to do? Perhaps you would like a group of use to write a specific Client that will resolve the problem? Now if that IS a resolution, care to donate towards the 15,000 USD development costs?

@ Nika, my idea of terrible and your idea of terrible may be entirely different. your post gives me very little technical information to be able to make a comparison, so there was no point in me referring to it in mine. There are massive performance differences between different combinations of hardware, and its perfectly possible to build a system out of hardware years old that will outperform a computer bought out of a shop today. I did it last week.

to clarify..

core2duo 1.8 + 1gb ram + 7200rpm ide hd + intel mobo + latest drivers for everything + all graphics options turned off/minimized and running fullscreen at the same res as my desktop + networking tweaked = 2-15fps!

but much more 2 than 15 =(

To me that is terrible, and this hardware setup is quite similar to a lot of kit thats been on the market for a while. For the people who can use the adjustments, great. for a lot of people running this gc, your SOL. sorry.

@ Paskis, guess what - not everything works with everything. has nothing to do with snobbery or willie measuring, its all about using the right tool for the job, which is NOT intel GC's for 3d graphics. I wish I could run sl and other stuff on crappy hardware, I'd be very happy and have much more money, but it doesn't work like that. If I went to a white water rafting event with a door instead of a canoe, I'd expect to have a bad time.

You and others have already suggested the few courses of action available, theres no need for me to repeat it. Stating that these people need to upgrade is just as valid, and for the longer term, the only solution. The problems with this chipset will probably get worse, and will certainly be ignored. Its not supported hardware because it cannot provide the service that is required of it.

@ whoever is still reading...

If you can crowbar SL onto your machine, wonderful =) Nika, Pasksis, others, have made good suggestions that may work for you. I still suggest getting a dedicated and supported GC though, as once you do, you can put the crowbar away, and you have a much better chance of still having a working client in 6 months or a years time =)

I'll bet it runs Word real well <sarcasim mode on> Wouldn't it be awesome to have a system that you could just open and change components bought off the shelf?.... ermm there is.. a desktop system....
Seriously, what would have been insight for laptop manufacturers would be to dump the Gamers tag on laptops containing INTELgm chips and state clearly, the inabilities to run OpenGL games... or supply a port (something they are good at) that allows you to use a 'slave' card or something.

@Tod and others who say that those of us with HW noncompliant with system requirements are living on borrowed time -- absolutely right. I don't report crashes to LL at all for that reason, and have not contacted support for any performance-related question. In fact, the killer for my setup appears to be voice and not graphics, surprise! Unless something dramatic happens with the voice client, this laptop (running indeed at 7-15 fps usually), will be completely unusable when the voice client becomes mandatory.

But, to be frank, getting SL to run on this thing has become an interesting part of the game for me. Being able to articulate clearly to people the options they have to make Intel chipsets run is a pleasure --- there are a LOT of them out there.

SL attracts a lot of people who have never played any other game -- 3D or otherwise. Most of these folks use SL casually, for fun. Thus, they play with what they have, until, in the natural course of their lives, they eventually upgrade, at which point they may take SLs requirements into account. I reacted with some irritation, for which I apologize, because it seemed in this thread that for every helpful response, there were 10 saying -- over and over -- get new hardware. And, you know, duh! to that. Many residents simply don't have that option, and, for the moment, this platform can be made to limp along.

lol @ AWM Mars, it would raise my respect a little. you can get usb graphics cards, but I've not found one that does opengl. dont think there are external port type things that would be of any use, which is a shame. although sata can go pretty fast. i dont know much specifics in this area though so I'm stabbing in the dark...

but yeah man if you want any grunt or serious graphics then desktops are the way forward.

I do get the point though. there's a lot of people out there running this stuff so there should be better support. Not offering it is alienating quite a few people. I'm lucky being able to get my hands on hardware to solve the problem, a lot of people only have one computer. In some cases a budget one. doesn't even have to be a seperate client, just depends on how modular it is. the increase in users and trade would pay for it in the long term.

being able to use 800x600 for instance would be good lol (on my laptop at least, 800x600 with the lowest UI size [0.750], I cant use the search facility, due to the buttons being off the bottom of the screen). the lower res you can use the better, drawing is a pretty high cost operation if you dont have hardware to foist the job onto. 1024x768 seems to be the lowest usable, which is a shame. 800x600 for older games on this laptop run like a dream =)

You have hit the nail on the head... most online games are heavy graphic users, the main difference with SL, apart from the OpenGL issue, is the dynamics. SL's platform is content making and levels of commerce. Building a prim on the fly and shaping it before all viewers eyes, is for the most part, unpredictable.. add the users ability to upload and apply virtually any texture etc to that prim (and or set) is a feat of programming rarely seen in most internet linked programmes. Add 'live' broadcasting, media etc and you can suddenly see just how open and dynamic SL really is.

To be fair to LL... Intel GC's along with many others stated, have been noted in the Systems Required specifications for years.. simply because those that created the programme knew the limitations for those outside the specifications. I do see at last, LL have updated the minimum specifications to exclude a dial up connection, I've been shouting about that one for quite sometime. However, they should also seriously update their own website which makes statements like :

Convenient, Cost-effective thin client One 10MB download delivers persistent desktop access to Second Life - no CD to buy, no 1GB downloads. Everything resides on the Second Life server grid - so all you need on your computer is a small, easily updateable viewer. Plus, you can play from any computer - all you need is Second Life installed.

Which at best is conflicting and a serious misquote.

See more of the same here
http://lindenlab.com/press/technology

I can't knock LL, as they have provided something that was clearly much needed, the next generation of interactive platform, anyone who makes a dime from this platform or has a good experience with attaining friends/help etc, should at least try and forgive them some mercies. If LL were absolutely on top of this genure of platform, the result could be a selling of the whole shubang to the likes of Sony, Google etc, and we could find that those corporates would introduce many restrictions to make it 'more publically acceptable', then we will loose the ability of freedom we currently have. Even a small amount of freedom of self expression, is better than none for the human soul.

No, actually, you just miss the point. Many people do not buy (or are not given by their employer) a machine specifically to run games. You can either choose to try to help those people, or you can snipe at them about not having good hardware, which you seem to prefer.

If someone goes out and buys a system that LL says isn't supported, what do I expect "us all" to do? Offer up ways to get it working if you know them. Note that my settings do work quite nicely on an Intel 945 by the way.

I don't need a group of you - who ever you think you're associating with - other forum-bound, Linden Lab employee wannabes perhaps - to write a client when I've managed to get it running quite nicely on the Intel chipset. As far as being rude, if you're blind to the way your own posts to people sound, I pity you. Again, help, or stfu. Enough of this "Get a real system or don't bother" nonsense.

And to your friend - Of course not everything runs with everything. But, as I pointed out, SL does run reasonably well with the Intel chips if the right settings are used. What's your point? Beats me.

Well... to help someone, there has to be a hope of it lasting, the introducion of the Havoc4 engine will totally bury the prospect of Intel GC from working. I've been nagging LL to update their minimum specs for years, but to be fair, they have made a list of the hardware NOT supported, that has been there from day one.

I could possibly help someone tune a moped to run in a TT race, but why?

There is hope on the horizon, wait until the SL client becomes a standard internet browser with a API pluggin (like Adobe did some 7 years ago with Atmosphere), I believe that may happen next year.

BTW, I have helped 1,000's of people both in the forums and ingame over the years I've been here, and in the many various computer programmes I have used over the past 20 years, I don't need any pup to tell me to stfu. Least of all from someone who offers nothing.

Have a great day.

all this trouble just to play SL at work ...