Hmmm ... SL too heavy to play? Seems that way!

Okay .. . Appears SL is becoming too heavy for even my computer to run effectively and do the work/play I want to do in SL. I have a 2.0 GHZ Intel Chip, with 512 DDR RAM and an NVidia GeForce AGP Video card I purchased just to get into SL, with 128 Ram on board. When I try to do SLexchange business and SL in-world work, like to check for number of prims and such to list, I crash and get the dreaded Windows BLUE SCREEN, saying it needs to dump memory cache and that I need to take off all recent software and hardware and go into BIOS to disable cache and shadows. This would hamper the experience of SL dramatically, and besides, most users aren't going to go into BIOS to play any game. They'll dump it before they do that. And I wouldn't blame them - BIOS is NOT for the novice. I have some suggestions I think would remedy this problem, but first let me introduce myself and my background.

1995 to 2002 I ran my own 3D Business Application Design firm called VirtaCity Studios, LLC. We were housed in the Active Worlds virtual network. My team and I opened the first 3D Internet Mall, called Bizworld way back in 1996. We also developed a number of extremely functional biz apps that were slated for production with businesses, but due to the tech stock bubble burst, things went belly up. Such is life.
As such, I became intimately acquainted with what that did and didn't work online in MMORPG style environs like SL and others.

MY SUGGESTIONS:
I think the biggest bandwidth hog in SL is the fact that the payment and display system for goods in SL is duplicated inside and outside the environ system. I think if the payments and additional images for items were put into the SLexchange style web page and integrated into the SL GUI, this would streamline a lot of the work needed to sell and put up for sale items in SL AND reduce the lag in SL. No more would sellers have to use IN-WORLD VENDERs and thus clog up SL's pipeline with sales scripting and such. If someone wanted to buy a top, they'd simply click on the image to get a HTML sell page for that particular item. The SLexchange website would have to be dramatically reduced in size to a 4" x 6" window, but the tests we did for this in Bizworld proved that it could be done and quite effectively. The Internet window could be a slide out additional window that can be opened by click and dragging towards the center of your SL GUI. You could even make it so it slide over the SL IN-WORLD window completely to allow for regular size web pages, if the seller wanted or needed that much space to market their items. It would also allow users to shop in SL and never have to leave the world environ, which would be advantageous for Linden Labs user stats and the users themselves. I don't stay inside SL to shop on SLexchange, which means ya'll are missing me on your stats for hours. Us women love to shop together, so it would be a dream come true for us to be able to access both in world and SLexchange listing at will and simultaneously.

SO, that's my two cents. Hope it helps and is heard. My user name in SL is Tessa Harrington, if you need to contact me, and my gmail is [email]TessaHarrington@gmail.com[/email] or you can contact me through my old alias, [email]ladysilvanna2@hotmail.com[/email]
**** I certainly hope these get read. This is a serious problem that needs resolved ... like yesterday. ******

BSOD? That makes me very curious. What is your operating system?

Note, one of the computers I run SL on is a 900Mhz AMD with 512Mb of PC133 memory and a 128Mb GeForce 5700LE - and I run a browser (Firefox) and sometimes even Photoshop at the same time without running into the problems you've described. I think your problem can be resolved without changing your BIOS settings.

It sounds like you have some sort of driver problem or maybe a memory module going bad. Might try a memory checking utility like Memtest86. If you are running a Celron, all bets are off...

~.~ dont say celeron..dont say celeron

Your crashing could also be due to heat. I have definitely had reliance problems with cases that are poorly ventilated. I gave up with my latest case and just leave the side off of it. I was crashing fairly frequently while the computer was under heavy load (graphic intensive games). Since the side has come off, haven't crashed.

If you just added that new video card in there and it doesn't have the proper ventilation, that could easily be the problem. Try removing the side (and even stick a room fan blowing on it) for a while and see if you have any better luck.

Why would this be the issue if she sees the problem during specific in-game user actions? Heat related issue don't trigger consistently when performing a specific user action, like checking a list.

Probably not the problem but it is an easy, cheap thing to try. Also, SL uses the video card in ways other games don't so it could be overheating only playing SL. Unlikely but its an easy check to make.

I understand, but it doesn't fit the symptoms. Overheating issues are simply not tied to user actions. If performing an action in the game causes a crash, then the problem is related to the action and is software related, not hardware. I would say if simply running SL over a period of time caused a crash, then yes, it might be the extra load on the card creating more heat, but then it would make no difference what actions were performed in SL.

Thanks so much for ya'lls suggestions and concern. I am seriously concerned as well, as if this continues I wont' be able to stay with SL. That would be a huge let down for me and i am sure my current and future clients.

My video card is brand new and has an on board fan. I listed all this in my original post, but I guess a few of you skipped over that part. Its a geforce 5700 by chain tech/nvidia. And, yesterday i spent all day defraging, sannign for viruses, updating router firmware and video driver and such. I still crashed last night at a party of about 12 people --- took 4 reboots and a hd check to get back and by the the party was over. I had no problems with these freeze up/crashes before the last two patches, so I have to assume it is a problem on SL's part. If they are upgrading to the point that only super muscle machines can be in SL without resorting to a tiny GUI window or stripping all advanced graphics off the perferences and basically running the game at 1998 standards, then they need to rethink their current direction.

I value the graphics and such, but truthfully, if they liten to the suggestion I gave, they could have the graphic superiority AND not put a burden on their user base. It would require a serious committment to totally revamp the way items are purchased, but as it stands now it is pathetically redundant. I prefer to shop in world with friends. If i could access the better grade images from a web page that was integrated into the game user interface or window, then i'd still be happier than leaving SL all together.

Thanks so much for ya'lls suggestions and concern. I am seriously concerned as well, as if this continues I wont' be able to stay with SL. That would be a huge let down for me and i am sure my current and future clients.

My video card is brand new and has an on board fan. I listed all this in my original post, but I guess a few of you skipped over that part. Its a geforce 5700 by chain tech/nvidia. And, yesterday i spent all day defraging, sannign for viruses, updating router firmware and video driver and such. I still crashed last night at a party of about 12 people --- took 4 reboots and a hd check to get back and by the the party was over. I had no problems with these freeze up/crashes before the last two patches, so I have to assume it is a problem on SL's part. If they are upgrading to the point that only super muscle machines can be in SL without resorting to a tiny GUI window or stripping all advanced graphics off the perferences and basically running the game at 1998 standards, then they need to rethink their current direction.

I value the graphics and such, but truthfully, if they liten to the suggestion I gave, they could have the graphic superiority AND not put a burden on their user base. It would require a serious committment to totally revamp the way items are purchased, but as it stands now it is pathetically redundant. I prefer to shop in world with friends. If i could access the better grade images from a web page that was integrated into the game user interface or window, then i'd still be happier than leaving SL all together.

Hmmm, did you try removing all traces of SL and downloading the full version of SL client from the download page.

I have more or less the same problems as Tessa - major crashes after playing the game for about 5 to 10 minutes. Done everything that Tessa's done, and still the same. Then I noticed that if I quit the game before it crashes, a yellow triangle with a black exclamation mark appears (briefly) in the XP system tray: SL Corrupt file. Uninstalled and reinstalled, but no different. Still not sure which SL file is corrupt.

One thing that is making life better is increasing the space that IE assigns for the Temporary Internet files. I had mine on 5 megs. I can stay in the game a lot longer by bumping this up to 500 megs. (Then again, I made so many tweaks, can't be sure this is what worked!)

Like to find some answers as to why this game is a major memory hog! If I can play Half Life 2 without any memory problems, what's up with SL?

Machine:
XP Home
Athlon XP2800
1 gig of memory
Nvidia Geforce 6600 GT

This type of comment, which you see on every gaming tech support board, makes me laugh. It's like saying "If Word works, why doesn't Excel?"

I always fear when someone mentiones a GF card and the onboard video memory but not which model it is.

For good reason, too: You have a GeForce MX 4000. They're the slowest models from the MX line, which in and of itself is literally made from GeForce 2 hardware. So, while you have a card with a good amount of video memory, it's actual graphics processor is our absolute bare minimum.

I find it disappointing that these cards are even sold. It's the equivalent of selling a car with a two-cylinder engine and advertising its 40-gallon gas tank.

I see your graphics drivers are up-to-date; with that card (due to its intentionally-designed lack of modern feature sets), you might actually try an older driver release, such as the 44.09's. Your motherboard drivers could use an update to the newest version, as well.

Have you tried adjusting your preference settings.. i nthe network tab under preferences.. the default bandwidth is set to 300.. set it to 1000 and see what happenes

Event though your card is new.. update all your drivers.. I have a brand new pc and SL was runnning sluggish at times ... so i updated my drivers and OMG>. is all i can say

Good luck

I think a good solution to this is to have a second life LITE client. Perhaps, it can be toggled on and off where only the most minimal graphics are shown, or no graphics at all. A picture of the second life log in page, a transporter to get to a room, and a text chat. That would solve a lot of probems with people who can't log on to second life from a second computer, or have problems after being logged on to sl for a long period of time. Cybertown has been doing this for years, I don't see how it could be that difficult to implement in Second Life as well.

Cienna, just to let you know, on one of my machines I am running SL on a stripped down P3 1Ghz machine, probably using a less advanced version graphics card than you. It works, it's slow as hell, but it doesn't crash. So, I'm thinking that probably is not the problem. However, it does have 1.5gb of memory too (looks like 3 times the memory you have), which may or may not be a factor. I also run 3 computers at the same time, over wireless, so you know my bandwidth usage has got to be high, but they all seem to work okay.

One of the problems here is that SL really is pushing the limits of graphical capabilities, as is evident by the fact it is only supported by a limited number of graphics cards, so this is always a very suspect area in terms of driver updates, configuration, memory shadowing, caching, etc. Updates that affect one person may not affect another. Unfortunately, it tends to boil down to a lot of trial and error many times to get the right configuration.

You might try really stipping everything down to bare minimal settings and set parameters for compatibilty over performance. If you manage to get past the problem, then start slowly adding things back and see if you can isolate the problem. It's a pain, I know.

Tessa, you do realize HTML is coming to SL?
You could probably start planning and developing a solution that meets your suggestion, if you feel it's so pressing.

Also, consider, some people like in-world vendors.
Abuse of vendors is not a reason to do away with vendors.

My Suggestion of doing away with venders as a means to retail wasn't made out of frustration or disappointment in my buying experiences with venders. I have no bone with them except that if I had to choose between an in world vender and a web page vender, i'd prefer the latter, because it would reduce the load all of us carry as we conduct business in SL and allow us to stay in world and shop. Really, the only people who would be put out by html vender replacements would be vender sellers I'd think.

If SL is to bring HTML to the in-world game, they'd better not allow HTML image signs and carry the pages live. OH dear ... talk about bandhog????? Why relay HTML through a oinky middle man app like SL? I mean, isn't web surfing, even with broadband, frustrating enough without beaming it in-world through an already stuffed pipe line?

Somethings got to give here or SL is going to become the game that can only run on muscle machines, which is a decidedly narrow user margin, and will not please investors. Ya know all these log-a-thons? Yeah, they may be for testing, but I garuntee you they are ALSo for investors to jack up numbers they report to them.

Linden Labs desparately needs to rethink their options here. They say my video card is the prob. Well, what about the other people, like KayCee Nino with an athlon 2800, 1gigb mem and 6600 vid card having the same probs???? What about the fact that SL ran FLAWLESSLY on my computer until the last two patches?

I am NOT the only one feeling the strain here. This is not just some griefer complaint about nothing, and I am NOT an uneducated virtual user. I ran my own 3D Biz App Studio business for 6 years in Active Worlds starting in 1996 - way for before Phillip Linden even dreamed of SL.

This goes to the heart of Second Life's survival on a economic and useage level. IF they don't make some heard decisions - and soon - they are going to start losing resident and investor support. I'd much rather still be able to play second life and have it be a monetary success to meet its investor's goals, than have in-world venders or live image HTML. I mean how can you compare the two in importance?!?!?! Its like saying you'd rather spend your last 5 bucks on cigs or beer than a meal for your family. *sigh*

Myabe I should have bought that card instead. That could be my prob in a nutshell. But the suggestion of Bios changes ... that is fine for someone like myself who has experience in that area from building computers in the past, but it is not a good solution to answer this problem over all. Niether is expecting its users to spend $100 to $200 on a new video card. If Linden Labs wants to achieve a user base that will appease their investors who just plopped down 8m on them to do just that!

LL needs to stop messing with graphics and start working on ways to make their game usable by a wider audience. Nothing worse for residual sales than to have a user crash repeatedly while trying to use their program.

No celeron here LOL! All intel p4 and mem mods are all good, but thanks for suggestions

I always keep, my side open, even though it requires me to do "housekeeping" inside the case on a regular basis, due to Texas dust bunnies and such. ALso, we have a AC unit that blows directly into it. Talk about the ultimate cooling fan! LOL! But thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah Lee .. tried to find an upgrade for my Bios but the manfacture is no longer in biz and asus, nor any motherboard really, is the easy to flash if the maker makes tweaks it, which they usually do, never mind the further complication of them going outta business years later. If you have a suggestion for that I am all ears. BUT ... this still doesn't explain why SL ran flawlessly until the last two patches. IMHO, it sounds like SL upgraded their game to the exclusion of a great many players. Is this LL's goal - to limit their user base to only the elite systems with 1.5 gig of memory and the upper end of video cards? If so, fine, then reduce the lag in the game via other means, like my GUI suggestion in my first entry of this thread. I thought LL was looking for a better way to do slexchange anyways. Isn't that a viable option to consider and wouldn't it dramatically improve bandwith issues by providing a separate pipeline for purchase to go through AND eliminating a ton of heavy scripts running in-world?

Tessa, you are absolutely correct. There is no explanation for the game working 2 patches ago then suddenly failing to work, except that there was always a bug, which was now uncovered (typical of pointer and memory errors), or one was recently introduced.

The problem is that it is far too easy to point the finger at the other guy. Rather than investigate the problem, the "fix" tends to be one of denial that one's own code could be to blame and instead point the user to some other source (i.e., the quick, easy and free solution). As you probably know, this is typical of the industry. I get so tired of hearing how all the crashing problems are because of the video drivers. If these video drivers were that bad the computers would be unusable, because software would be crashing left and right. But wait, most other applications are not crashing like this. Hmm, gee, maybe that means the problem is NOT in the video drivers.

This again is another example of Linden sweeping these kinds of issues under the rug in favor of new features. This is a paid service, where Linden in many cases is making in excess of $200 a month on many people. It's rather disheartening that these types of issues are not taken seriously, but rather users are told to keep reconfiguring their systems, with the hope that some lucky combination of configuration options will mask the bugs once again. There, problem solved!! See, it was your video driver!! Yeah, right!!

How long did you run MemTest86 for?