OpenGL compatibility and video cards

My current computer can run SL, because it has a GeForce4 in it. That's fine. However, this computer is kind of old and busted as laptops go, and I would like to get a new one.

Now, the help wiki says this:



So, I don't get it. There are something like two dozen manufacturers (like Intel or 3DFX) whose cards support the OpenGL standard. If it's really a standard, then it shouldn't matter what hardware is running it.

So is the wiki wrong? I find this on my mind because of the issues of affordability (i.e., laptops with ATI or nVidia cards are more expensive than I'm willing to pay and you can't just mix and match components). It's just that the way it's written, it appears to contradict itself: "Second Life relies on OpenGL. Most OpenGL-supporting hardware can't run it."

What's going on?

Hi Shaviv,
first a sincere welcome to sl. Hope you like it here and I wish you all the fun you came here for.

I will try to give you sufficient information on graphics hardware, as I am going to upgrade hardware for sl as well (but a desktop) and I have read pretty much any thread discussing hardware concerning with sl and digged on the net about hardware comparisons.
First to mention openGL isn't the same openGL everywhere. I don't know that much about openGL itself, what I read about it is that it consists about a core and a set of different extensions. The driver and the chipset define the grade how much of openGL is actually hardware accelerated and (and that's important) at what quality level openGL is supported and the driver defines a good grade of the performance as well. Short, a good driver boosts your world experience and a bad driver *can* suck. And if your card isn't supported by sl you even can't complain at the sl support. I am pretty sure, if you come along and mention an unsupported graphics card with bad world experience, they will tell you: we told you so and that's it.

At this point I will focus on three different situations you can have with a laptop.
First, you can have a built in intel graphics capability. I don't remember the current modell number, but I mean the current one sold as integrated graphics with *shared memory* on many laptops. As I read in tests these card provides only a limited power (more than an ati9200 but less than an ati9600) and furthermore they have no dedicated graphics memory which slows down memory throughput and *and thats more important* eats up your main memory. I am not sure at this point, how good their opengl supprt is. In a recent thread people stated that it runs.
Anyway, this builtin GPU is, what I read about it, not recommended for gaming.

Then we come to the ATI solution. ATI had in the past troubles with their openGL support though in the meantime people report that it works fine now with sl. Though the driver support at least works now it is still of lower performance compared to nvidia cards for most of their middle class cards. The main reason for this situation is that ATI focuses on directx and windows and neglected opengl for a long time.

NVidia provides the best opengl driver performance, and even more important, provides the best stability of opengl because the opengl support is of the best quality on the market for years now. Here for sl and everywhere else nvidia is the most recommended manufacturer for graphic GPUs if you use opengl based games.

In my experience with computer stuff spending more money on the right hardware is important to safe you a lot of troubles in specific cases. And sl is such a specific case. It eats up all the performance it can get. SL is more CPU hungry than GPU hungry and gives better results with a fast cpu and at least 1GB of main memory. At the moment sl isn't multithreaded, that means a dualcore cpu doesn't give you any benefit right now running only the game. But this might change in the future, I heard rumors about a new reanderer being multithreaded and will likely replace the old in the future. You might search in the forums for more information about that.
Even with a very good laptop you might not get much more than 15-30 fps depending on the bussiness of the area. Other games are better optimized and provide more. Don't expect that of sl right now, but the official ll position is, that the framerates need to be improved and the next release provides some optimization for framerates.

So, take a credit, rob a bank, do anything but don't buy anything else than nvidia/ati and a good cpu. And even more don't take modells of entry grade of nvidia. Avoid every 6x00 modell less than the 6600 go or the 7300/7400 go in the 7x00 line as these have only a 64bit memory bus and this is a bottleneck. What people recommend here is at least an 6600 or 6800 modell with 128MB. I tend for myself to a 7600GT but I want it for my desktop. The ones recommended above provide the best bang for your money and provide enough capability to run sl for a long time.

Taking all this into account saving money on a laptop (e.g. with a niche GPU chipset) if it comes to gaming isn't the very best idea as the framerate will be not really acceptable for a real good world experience of sl.

I can think of a solution for you with a discontinued model of Pentium M laptop with last years nvidia graphics gpu (e.g. 6600 go) and a gig memory. Has someone experiences any with this?

I just read a little bit further in the forum and found this thread: 100837.
And it seems a discontinued modell with a pentium m, a gig ram and a gforce 6600 128MB go could be a pretty good deal for sl.

From what I understand it's cheaper to get MS Office and Windows XP (I prefer Pro) bundled. Plus, if I buy it through the university store, as either staff or student, I get a discount.

It doesn't look so hopeful that I'll be able to get an SL-capable laptop for under 1.5k, which is the maximum I'm willing to pay for a new machine. I guess I don't have to throw away my old beater, though.

Take a look at this:

http://www.gateway.com/products/GConfig/proddetails.asp?system_id=nx860xl&seg=hm

gig of ram, core duo, 7800 go video card, 17" screen, without all the extra software its 1.5k and would run SL fine, also got good reviews.

I have successfully run SL on some Intel cards...

That laptop is pretty much a complete desktop replacement. If he expects to have anything even remotley portable, with some sort of battery life to begin with, this isn't the laptop hed want. Just notice how battery life wasn't even mentioned in the product description. Its also dual core, which sl won't utilize for probably quite some time.. so hed be stuck on a single 1.66 GHz core with a 667MHz FSB and 2MB L2 Cache (anyone know if the cache or fsb would be split in half with ony one core being utilized?). I'd be interested to see how that benches up against a nice Single-core Pentium M, really.

When hunting for laptops, stay away from the 'creme of the crop' video. They tend to have squat for batterylife. Previous gen getting an x700 mobile or a 6600 go were the best options in regard to battery life and power. They were powerful videocards with power consumption still being taken into account. I'd look for a nVidia 7600go or a radeon x1600 mobility. Hell, even x700mobile and 6600go are good enough for SL. (my x700 mobile can run sl quite well, and it can run FEAR at nearly full settings.. Not skimpy) Also, avoid words like 'hyper/turbo cache' and such things. They are normally just a way to put a positive spin on crappy shared memory schemes.

If you want it to be a desktop replacement, then go ahead. I'd however like to note that laptops are often over twice the price of any desktop with similar stats.

Yes, that's what others saying in the above mentioned thread. But I have two questions with that.

1. How are the framerates?
Nobody mentions that how fast it really is. It run's well is what they mention, but what does that mean. A new laptop with comparable specs to the e.g. mac book pro should do 15 to 30 fps now. You need to expect framerate reductions during the time sl is further developed anyway. So don't start with 10 fps and be forced down to 7 or less fps earlier than you like to see it.

2. What is the best achievable drawing distance with e.g. 1 GB ram?
I think it's not a good idea to buy a new laptop and have to drop your drawing distance to e.g. 96m facing a possible drop down to 64m in future releases of sl as we all know that sl can become even more ram hungry.

And furthermore, you risk that sl *might* not run in a future release. LL ensures that their stuff runs on nvidia and ati chips with current drivers and the best way possible and with only minor glitches. Everything else is on your own risk. LL is no opengl conformity/performance test lab and it is good idea with a *new* laptop to stick to the hardware choices they made. Having an old rig with intel and just wanna testing it and using it sometimes if you don't use a desktop, that's fine. But a *new* laptop as a desktop replacement should run really well with no foreseenable limitations or too many quality reductions right now.