I know a lot of people have mentioned stuff along these lines but...

...I want to make an extra note about the kind of lag I am getting (not logging in to file a bug report because I'm giving up on SL till I hear this improves... I'd rather not have my computer explode or something). SL is not the only thing that is lagging. When I run SL, since the update, it lags my ENTIRE system. This never happened before 1.10, at least never to that extent. While I run SL (after it starts lagging, which is usually about 5 minutes into when I logged in - I always start off thinking "oh maybe they fixed it" and about 5-10 minutes after I manage to log out (which right now always requires using the task manager and ending the program via ctrl-alt-del, which takes 5 minutes to shut down in and of itself) my whole system feels the lag, not just second life.

I'm not sure if that will get you closer to the problem or not, but I figured I'd mention it.

As an added note, using the map seems to cause extra lag, even beyond the regular. Unless it's just a random coincidence that the point when I freeze tends to be while I'm on the map trying to TP to a less laggy area.

Sorry if this is in the wrong area.

Moved to Technical Issues.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

What I will be doing is looking at Technical Issues with other Lindens for any additional clues to what's causing some of these problems post-1.10.

Specifically, I have noticed the slowdown in local FPS after opening the Map too. It feels quite sluggish when zooming in and out and updating images.

BTW, did you try the Fast Timers thing mentioned here?

/111/93/110133/1.html

Er.... well.... I'm afraid to log in and try it. lol Snapshots also lag when I try to save them to disk....

To answer your questions in that post, there's noplace it happens more than any other, really. It even happens in my skybox at 700ft in a low-lag sim where the only objects are my unscripted walls, and one locking door. No lights, no flexible prims, no excessive objects or scripting.

My *best* guess, given it happened since the update and that it's not only SL that lags when I run the program, it that it's something client-side that has less to do with something inworld so much as the program itself. Beyond that I have no clue, not being a technical person.

I won't log back in till maybe tomorrow morning because I'm not trying to work on other things then, so my computer freezing for 10 minutes while SL finishes closing is less detrimental. Hopefully it won't freeze mid-screenshot in the meantime.

Hopefully with as many reports as have been happening, whatever's coming in tomorrow's bug fix will help with that as well?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news... your Intel 915G graphics card (as listed in your crash log) does not meet our Minimum System Requirements.

I myself was haveing issues over the weekend,with some crashes,also seen some of the regions around me would dissapear around me,i live in sage,one of the older regions,i saw plum,and rose go blank on my mini map,turned red as well a few times,it would mostly happen when i was ajusting textures on objects,id freeze ,then was gone,i did send a crash report once or so i beleave,and im running the geforce 7800 256mb card..but im a patient person,been here awhile,going with the flow of this ever evolveing awesome home we call secondlife..i do give the lindens alot of credit..they are doing thier very best to make this the best online world they can,as with anything ,there are going to be bumps in the road,but time and patience and hard work,will prevaile and and the bugs that may bite us now and in the future will be squashed.. keep up the great work lindens..im 100% in your corner

I myself was haveing issues over the weekend,with some crashes,also seen some of the regions around me would dissapear around me,i live in sage,one of the older regions,i saw plum,and rose go blank on my mini map,turned red as well a few times,it would mostly happen when i was ajusting textures on objects,id freeze ,then was gone,i did send a crash report once or so i beleave,and im running the geforce 7800 256mb card..but im a patient person,been here awhile,going with the flow of this ever evolveing awesome home we call secondlife..i do give the lindens alot of credit..they are doing thier very best to make this the best online world they can,as with anything ,there are going to be bumps in the road,but time and patience and hard work,will prevaile and and the bugs that may bite us now and in the future will be squashed.. keep up the great work lindens..im 100% in your corner

I myself was haveing issues over the weekend,with some crashes,also seen some of the regions around me would dissapear around me,i live in sage,one of the older regions,i saw plum,and rose go blank on my mini map,turned red as well a few times,it would mostly happen when i was ajusting textures on objects,id freeze ,then was gone,i did send a crash report once or so i beleave,and im running the geforce 7800 256mb card..but im a patient person,been here awhile,going with the flow of this ever evolveing awesome home we call secondlife..i do give the lindens alot of credit..they are doing thier very best to make this the best online world they can,as with anything ,there are going to be bumps in the road,but time and patience and hard work,will prevaile and and the bugs that may bite us now and in the future will be squashed.. keep up the great work lindens..im 100% in your corner

I am aware of that, but since about 500 people posted problems I figured that might not be it.

*shrugs* I haven't been using any of the fancy new lighting stuff when I crashed, and it never messed up on me for the several months before I've been playing on this graphics card. I guess it changed even with those off?

Not that it matters. I'll be moving and away from the internet for a month or two soon anyway. I suppose I just take my hiatus from SL sooner than I thought, and hope I can get enough to spare for new hardware.

Just a bit frustrating when I have friends on there I have no other contact with. Any chance there'll be a way to IM friends from the site in the future? If everybody that's complaining just has unsupported graphics cards, I guess I'm SOL since I'll be on a school system wage for a while.

after experiencing alot of system lag, and loss/out of order chat, i've been playing around with just about everything i could think of touching. if your system is slowing down, try pressing ctrl-alt-delete, right-clicking the SecondLife.exe under the process tab, and try lowering the priorty from norm, to below normal or even low(great for changing through many windows). it won't help your game it's self, but gives other system process more to work with.

As for troubles opening the map, i've seen constant out of order packets everytime i open it, while watching the debug console. I should say that for the past couple of weeks i've been having high amounts (5-15%) of packet loss, though I only notice it in SL.

might be helpful, might not, but never know till ya try.


(edit) i should have mentioned that lowering the priority that way is only for that run, if it helps you, you have to do it again the next time you start SL

Hm, I'll try that, Dustin. As it is, I want to figure out what all these dang processes are that run. Afraid to close any in case they're critical files or something. *cough*

But another note on the graphics cards thing, now that I think of it..... more technical friends than me have said something about the graphics card should only affect FPS lag. If this is true, even though my graphics card may be partly at fault (I'm used to FPS lag - tis a fact of life and that, though frustrating, I don't mind quite as much), it's not only my framerate that's seen issues. Would the graphics card issue affect the IM and chat?

Oddly, I'm still not understanding what my card is missing (there's a post by me in second life answers that was trying to figure that out actually). I guess I didn't quite feel like I got enough detail on that to uderstand fully what Torley was saying. Even more befuddling is that for a day or two after the update, I was lagging less than ever - and I could turn on the new lighting and see it fine. So I am totally not understanding what it is that makes my graphics card unsupported. Nor why it would work with this update for two days and then go to hell on me (yeah, so strike the client side thing because I had forgotten about the no lag for two days thing.... my helpful info maybe is less so now... sorry x.x).

Lemme check the fast timers thing for Torley.

Erm.... I'm about to run off to class so actually posting it will have to wait till this afternoon.

I know it sounds like I'm ranty, probably, but I really am trying to be helpful. x.x If you can figure out the whole of my problem (because if it is the graphics card, I somehow doubt it's *only* that given the sheer numbers of people....) then it can help other people too. So here I yammer on when I discover or remember anything new (there are holes in my brain, it leaks...). That and, well, I didn't find out about this whole unsupported card thing (I had no idea how to check what my graphics card was until like 2 weeks ago) until WELL after I was hooked.

I can stop anytime I want I tell you!!! *manic look*

Okay, here's a new aspect that may help out here: I just downloaded the update. Ran for about an hour with less lag than I've ever had (aside from the first day or so that 1.10 came out). Opened up firefox and started dragging again.

Though oddly.... now that it's finally stopped creaking and whining about opening another program, it seems to not be lagging anymore.

I'm in a sim that is usually one of the most laggy.... it's as full as ever, but I am not lagging right now. We'll see how it does tomorrow.... Maybe one of your tweaks fixed it. ^^

*tries opening another browser window to see if her computer whines about it again*

Hm, a bit, not as much as when I started the first one though.

Odd.... well, we'll see what happens in a day or two. It's odd because normally when i first download an update, I lag really bad at first then it lessens over time. The 1.10 update was the other way around.... with any luck this one will just be flat-out normalcy.....

I'm dragging a *little* bit now... maybe SL just uses more overall resources than before? Not sure how that would work if I have all the new stuff turned off, but.....

=edit=
Spoke too soon. Crashed again. It does seem to relate to trying to run the browser at the same time, though this time it might have been the browser's fault, not SL's. I'll keep my eyes open.

Has anybody else noticed it being mostly a problem with running any particular program alongside it? Trying to narrow down based on what other people are experiencing.

As I mentioned, Lyrak, you don't meet the Minimum System Requirements. Everything you describe is exactly what we expect to happen to any Intel Graphics user under 1.10. That is exactly why they have never been supported.

Okay but could you at least explain what exactly is missing about the card that makes it not work?

Yes, I am one of those annoying people that wants to know WHY things work or don't work, go figure.

"Because it makes you lag" is not the answer I am looking for, obviously. Because that would already have been answered by my problem.

I'd also like to understand what would make it work before but not now. And of course, "it's unsupported" is insufficient to quell my curiosity, because this is the same card I was using before SL stopped working.

Oh, and also why on the very first day of the update, I could turn ALL these features on (I did it to test them and see if I could, then turned them off before logging out for the night) without lagging. That one REALLY confuses me.

I'm looking for specifics. I may not be technical, but I am capable of understanding things to a certain degree if they are explained to me.

I just want to know WHY, instead of having the same thing repeated, you know? Surely you can understand that. x.x It's frustrating to feel like you're not getting all the info.

Besides, knowing exactly WHY will help me understand what EXACTLY to look for when I buy a new card, however far down the road I can afford one. Since from the murmurings I am gathering there are some among the supported that work better than others.


=edit=
And, for any other crashing users that are following this thread, I have foiund what *appears* to allow it to run at a tolerable rate (I just put on a wyrmling and didn't crash, just to test if it actually worked.... I am still running okay, so maybe I've found a feasible solution until I can buy a new card...). My current settings:

Disk cache size set to mazimum.
Graphics:
-Draw distance 64
-run in a window
Detail:
-Normal rendering, turn off ALL the bells and whistles as far as lighting and such goes. I seem to still be able to have mesh details at default settings.
-terrain detail low
-no avatar vertex (dunno what difference it makes as I don't have it as an option lol)
Adv. Graphics:
-Graphics card memory set to 16MB. Your textures will suck majorly, but you lag less it seems.
-Max particle count: 0
-Outfit composite limit: 0
-fog distance ratio: 4.0 (I can't ever remember if you put that up or down to reduce lag though... I just tend to go to debug and turn off fog and clouds, though I haven't done that yet and am running okay)
Audio:
-No streaming is turned on.

Not sure if that'll work for everyone, but at the moment it seems to be for me. Not the greatest solution in the world, but I am willing to compromise good graphics if it means being able to reach my friends still.

Hey Lyrak--like Lee said, and simply put, I think I've mentioned some of this to you before when you asked in SL Answers.

Second Life uses OpenGL (that link has more technical information as to the WHY), including OpenGL 2.0 features (e.g. vertex shaders which take advantage of it). Thus, you'll want to get a card that supports that standard--otherwise at times, to use a colorful analogy, it's kind of like two people who talk radically different dialects of the same root language... some words will get through but others won't be understood.

Standards like OpenGL are done with certification and a lot of testing in mind. Again, you'll also note that OpenGL is at version 2.0, and alas, in Intel's own words for their Intel Extreme chipsets, they only support an older version, 1.3. So in comparison, things are missing, and just aren't present. In a twisted way, it's like holding back someone's schooling progress and then asking them a question from a grade they haven't passed yet: they won't know the answer. And like humans get stumped, computers have freezes, crashes, etc.

Now, this isn't to say that things won't flat-out work: your own tales show you've gotten lucky a few times, and things could be worse. You sound really determined to keep experimenting, and that's fine. ^^

The graphics cards in the System Recommendations will do ya well on a balanced system. Even better yet, ask your fellow Residents what works well for 'em. Simply ask: "What sort of computer system do you have that runs SL well?" That'll give ya pointers... and hey, it's what worked for me when I was doing research! I personally use a Nvidia GeForce 7800GT. Fairly costly when I got it, but very nice with my Opteron 170 (an AMD dual-core processor, which means it's good for multitasking). It's not esoteric or anything; it's quite market standard.

Best of hope.

In simple terms the cards that are not supported by SL are either ancient or where NEVER intended as gaming cards. They might have limited 3D support but that's just what it is.. limited.

If your going to play a 3D game then you really need a gaming machine to match. Trying to play it on an archaic chipset is like expecting an old 486 or early pentium to work with SL too.

I'm not talking anything like up to Torley ( or my ) PC standard either, SL's requirements aren't particularly high for a Game BUT they are high enough to require a genuine gaming rig, all be it a low end one.

Thanks, Torley. Hopefully you and Lee and the others realize, I really am not trying to be a pain. lol I'm just stubborn and nosy and it helps me dig at a problem and get less frustrated the more I understand about it.

And the openGL answer helped me most... I had seen it supported OpenGL (or at least, a version of it), and wasn't aware that was an older version, which is probably what got me mixed up. I did actually go read the intel site to try and find my answers. lol

Incidentally, when I tried to download the driver from the site, it told me it couldn't install on my computer. O.o; I figured maybe if I did that it would at least help a little.

But ah well. I'm running on "dummy settings" right now and it's functional, which is all I need until I get heavier into building again (or at least get to finished products) and want to view results properly. But I *can* turn things up higher as long as I don't take more than 5 minutes to do so. lol

And the link I found in another reply to somebody should help.... if I can figure out how to use blender properly with the offline builder. *grin*

*tries the driver thing again just because she's stubborn*

And Katier, as far as archaic.... it better not be archaic. lol I bought this thing last summer. If I've got old hardware stuffed into a brand new computer, wish I'd known sooner so I could knock some heads around. Problem is I know very little about hardware, and my parents helped me find this one - they are better with it than me but don't do online gaming so were mostly thinking of what works for them, and what would handle my Photoshop and all. So unsupportive of gaming it might be, but not archaic. Or at least I hope not. O.o

Either way, I should... hopefully... I think.... have a job waiting for me in a month when I move out of here, so depending on budgeting I may be able to get myself a new card after that. Until then I'll keep on telling my SL client that I only have 16MB graphics card memory and deal with a few sub-par textures here and there, and my friends teasing and asking me if I go boing when I jump. *snickers* Though really it's not all that much worse... makes me wonder if my SL was running at about that anyway despite my settings.

And here I go rambling again.

The Intel Extreme graphics chips were built as a cheap solution for motherboard manufacturers to include some GPU support into their motherboards to provide some graphics acceleration for Windows without having to include a separate video card in their machines (which were usually 3rd party and could cost a hefty sum to include and to support).

Your machine, while new, has a video card that was meant to provide basic system functionality, but was not designed to run the latest 3D games. While the chipset does have some functionality that allow you to play some games, the speed at which it does so is not comparible at all to a recently released 3D card.

Thankfully, upgrading your computer to a newer video card can be as cheap as $70. I would suggest looking through the compatibility list for SL and choosing a video card in your budget. Installing the card as an add-on will bring you a Second Life that will definitely be different than what you're used to experiencing.

Duke

So I'd just install it in addition to my old one? Just asking to clarify.

$70.... that's $100 cheaper than all the ones I was finding. Hm... Need somebody to shop with, I think. lol

If you dont have a laptop you "should" be able to upgrade your video card, there are a few computers out there which have absoutly no expansion slots but they are becomming rare. Can you please post your make and model of your computer? We will look it up for you to see if you can have a new video card.

Sorry to be the barer of news you didn't want to hear but a quick search on the net finds drivers dating back to at least 2002 for drivers for 'Intel Extreme' so yep it's an archaic chipset. Simply because as Duke says it's designed purely to provide a simple graphics display. Not support 3D gaming.

I'm on an HP pavilion desktop. *prods the info* eh, aside from that all it gives me is Pentium 4 CPU, 3.06 GHz, 504 MB of RAM (wtf? *pokes that number* Thought it was 512...)

Is there something else you'd need me to dig up or is that good enough?

I'm pretty sure it has expansion slots because my dad was the one who fished the thing up for me and he tends to look for stuff he can add things to. lol But that's only hazarding a guess. I'm sure as hell not opening it up to find out. I'd end up killing it somehow. lol

Chances are you can add to that, would need the model number to be 100% sure and to advise if it's PCI-E or more likely AGP.

Well, if I can't figure it out for myself, I at least know some people irl who can. That makes it easier. Hence why I mentioned shopping with somebody else.

open case peek in,

pci-e ;
tend to look like any other slots white usually,just way more pins

agp ;
looks ugly ,no really o.o brown usually

A1104X

There's the model. A friend just looked on the website for me, and said I have 3 PCI slots but no AGP. So... for SL purposes what does that mean?