WE CANT MAKE REAL WORLD CLOTHING IN SL??? NIKE PHAT FARM etc

I am not sure if this is true or not but a friend said that we cant sale rl clothes in our clothing shops in SL and if so why are all kinds of stores doing it still. is this true or false someone help me because i own a store in SL and i am re-designing and i love nike,phatfarm,rocawear,D&Getc

copyrighted/patended real life objects that are sold in SL is not allowed anymore that is true.

You further understand and agree that: (i) you are solely responsible for understanding all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other intellectual property or other laws that may apply to your Content hereunder; (ii) you are solely responsible for, and Linden Lab will have no liability in connection with, the legal consequences of any actions or failures to act on your part while using the Service, including without limitation any legal consequences relating to your intellectual property rights; and (iii) Linden Lab's acknowledgement hereunder of your intellectual property rights in your Content does not constitute a legal opinion or legal advice, but is intended solely as an expression of Linden Lab's intention not to require users of the Service to forego certain intellectual property rights with respect to Content they create using the Service, subject to the terms of this Agreement.


...oh ffs fix the BBCode already LL,

This is a 'No-Brainer'. You can't just slap someone elses logo on stuff you make in SL, unless you have thier permission to merchandise for them. If you want to make a Nike knock-off with a few of your own design changes and slap your own logo on the clothing textures, you'll probably be on safe ground. But, if you use someone elses registered (or not) logo on your work (knock-off or completely original) you are likely to really piss that person/company off. No one wants to piss off Nike!

I agree with everyone except if you have premission from the said company to use their logo on the objects you are creating.
Oh, for the record, 9th circuit court in the US just nullified the TOS, saying it was unenforable.
The Lantham act allows fair use for trademarks, though.
And Under trademark law, you can recieve permissions to use someone elses trademarks.
Finally that company can give you a pass if you already infringed, if they find it in their best interest to do so, and it is defined by them.
LL is losing the Bragg case at the moment. So I wouldn't use the TOS to back anything up. I am also positive that Ginsu et all is working on a solution at the moment.
Safest thing: Don't create trademarked objects without permission in writing or printed out. And be able to provide this premission if challenged.

*sigh* This again? People are constantly bringing up fair use with copyright infringement, and now trademarks? Listen, if you are making a documentary about the history of sneakers then it would be fair use, but selling fake branded objects is basically the opposite of fair use.

As for the TOS, the Bragg case has not nullified the entire TOS. And even if it did, that doesn't make any difference for the OP; it doesn't make them any less liable for their illegal actions, the question is simply about whether or not LL can be held responsible too.

Oh, and do you really think permission is worth bringing up? You talk about it as if it were likely Nike would give some random SLer the greenlight to sell branded items.

This just cant be beacause people all over sl do it and i asked around and got the responce that how will nike and so fourth sue all of us so.......

Hi Imani!

Bottom line:

YES: You can create clothing in SL based on RL clothing designed/inspired by Nike...etc.

NO: You cannot use the Nike logo (or any other trademarked logo) on that clothing.

Example: You love a pair of sneakers sitting in your closet and you want to create some just like it *without* the Nike logo for use in SL.....cool. You want to put that neat little Nike logo on it? Nope.

Nike could go after you for doing so.

Clear as mud?

Best,
~Ari


What does the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals have to do with nullifying the TOS?

There's a saying...
Not many people are familiar with copyright and trademark laws and a some of those that do know choose to ignore them anyway. Just know that you're leaving yourself exposed to particular consequences (legal action and fines... imprisonment if you cannot or will not pay) when you choose to break these laws.

As long as you recieve permission by the copyright/trademark holder to use their copyright/trademark, you are allowed use them... to the extent the copyright/trademark holder has expressed in the fashion you may use them.

If any of you are interested, here's a visual aid to help you understand about "Fair Use":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

Well you are physically capable of doing it, it's not like the upload function automatically scans textures for existing trademarks and rejects logos found. However, just as with anything else in life, the fact that you are capable of breaking the law doesn't change the fact that you are breaking the law.

Ultimately, I don't understand what you want here. It sounds like you have already decided to make illegal knockoffs and are just looking for us to say "ok." In which case, not gonna happen.


Clever video! *bookmarked*

Sorry if this drags the thread off-topic, but I find sentiments like that of the video kinda annoying. As in, people who seem to think the entire notion of copyright is an affront to freedom and that all creative work should be public domain. While I agree that the extremely long term that copyright has been extended to is excessive, it's so annoying how people think creators are greedy for wanting to exert control over their creations.

I can only assume such people have never created anything, and fail to grasp what it feels like for someone else to take the work you've slaved over. I also get the sense people who don't create original works think it is easy to create (this is certainly true of people who don't animate thinking it is easy to animate.)

Shall we get into the bragg case honestly its a ridiculous case in any light and the court system should of tossed it out right off the bat. The guy used a back end trick to get something at a discounted price which is internet crime since he used a system on the net in a manner in which it wasnt designed and that wasnt public knowledge and in a way it wasnt intended. So the land which he got and tried to make a profit off of was obtained by illegal means in the first place in which case he has no right to sue the company for enforcing their rules on him. You say they are losing but at the end of the day i guarantee you that LL will win if all evidence of the matter is actually brought forward. He tried to make it sound like they stole his money but if you look at it from the perspective of LL unless he pays the rest of the amount owed on each and every sim before hand he has no room to argue.

The case was absurd and he's trying to use loopholes to get it pushed through but when you get down to it what he did wasnt legal. You cant use an illegal trick in r/l to get something at a cheaper price and then whine when its seized by the police or whomever because you obtained it in that manner.

Your not allowed to use trademarked stuff no. And some people may have the companies permission you dont really know if they do or not.... But really dont bring up a ridiculous case which should of been tossed out of court as soon as it as brought forward to back up any claim.

let me make a simple reply.. that stuff is copyrighted.. means u either have to buy royalties to use it.. or not use it.. To make profit off of other peoples brands/logos is illegal in the real world.

Nike and those "names" are trademarks. No you can't use them UNLESS you go to the company and ask if you can use them. If you are using them and sticking that Nike stamp on them then you may possibly get burned in the future.

If you want to do something I mean really really want to go to the company and ask. In most cases though as with Nike who makes running shoes etc if you make a running shoe that looks cool you dont HAVE to call it a nike as most people in SL dont buy according to brand name, but buy rather according to LOOKS.

If its a cool shoe you can call it "crap on a stick" or "cool running shoes" and people will buy it. Actually in SL if you called it "crap on a stick" and advertised it as such you would probably get a lot of business ^^

I made a pair of boots once and I gave it a somewhat umm colourful name the result was the name i came up with gave everyone a kick and they came to look at the boots and if they liked them they bought them

so I dont understand this fixation with calling a running shoe a Nike when you can probably create a name that will sell it better in SL


Also if you can't make and sell Nike running shoes in Real life without getting into all sorts of legal problems then you can't do it here. If you apply those types of rules to SL you will probably be safe. (err assuming your one to try to apply those rules in real world and dont sell pirated good or something.. gah I should just put the other foot in my mouth right now and get it over with..)

Under US law, the design of clothing and related items (accessories, etc.) cannot be legally protected; you can make an SL dress that LOOKS just like a Chanel, and you're fine. (There are a few countries where that is NOT true.) TRADEMARKS, on the other hand, CAN be and are protected, so you can't legally make an item that has an RL logo on it without permission.

So you can make a shoe with the same design as a Nike. But you can't put a swoosh on it.

Look, all lindens will do in a copyright case, when provided with a dmca takedown notice, they will simply send the offending article back to the owner. omg! then they say to the copyright owner, well we've done our job, you see any more of these copies around send us another dmca notice with the exact location of its whereabout and we'll send someone out to send it back to its owner.

Forget copyright protection in SL, lindens treat it like a joke.


This is what they did to me after a copybotter copied a 300 prim yacht of mine EXACTLY.

Oh, btw, the illegal copy lindens "removed" is back up where it was before.

I have a friend who was thinking about putting one of his lawyers to work by finding a way to go after linden labs for doing this kind of thing.
And to get one of those supiena things to get contact info on the person who copied some stuff. So he can sue the person directly.

I guess it wont be long before that happens anyway.

Yes but its not a copyright issue Nike is a trademark and Nike is now in second life if I am not mistaken and LL has in fact been working on reducing trademark violations and they are doing it very very rigorously.

So why go there if you can avoid it.

Copyright issues are with respect to ingame content creators mainly in this case with your yacht it nots an issue of trademark violation its an issue of copyright and yes you go through linden labs, BUT if your really really wanting to get this yachtr removed your next step would be a copyright lawyer, however this costs money and most people dont go that far as a result of the real world costs. Although there are now lawyers inside SL and if you look for them you might be able to find one that will help you with regard to your COPYRIGHT problem

Nike's shoes are not copyrighted, their trademark though with that little design is a TRADEMARK and LInden labs does enforce this a little better especially with large corporations showing up with trademarks and logos that need protecting. Its all about big business and how much money is in your pocket.

Nike doesnt want their trademark being abused. Coke on the other hand has stated the opposite and has no problem with their trademark being used and considers is free advertising

Did you get your question answered?

Have you been totally and completely confused and now sorry you even asked?



~Ari

John, I have permission from three companies to do just that. Its cheaper and easier for some to test the water this way. So yes, they will give someone the right to do so. It depends how you ask and how you give your presentation.
As for Bragg, the judge said the tos was a contract was invalid. they could even reedit it.
My point still stands. It is illegal to do so without permission. Fair use is covered by parody and this is sells a physical product. Its selling an image. Most businesses now understand that thanks to the media blitz sl has had.
And beside what would it hurt to actually ask? create a presentation, have a preexisting store, point to the other corporatations doing it. But you would be talking to marketing. Not sales.
So I repeat, It is illegal to do so without permission. Get premission (like several do, it isnt adidas or the others making the stuff with their names on it, you know) you get to make the stuff.

so nike's the only ones who do not want there trademarks being used in secondlife

That's not it at all.

ANYONE who holds a trademark can go after you for using it on your products. This is true for any company from Bandaid brand bandages, to Marlboro cigarettes to Nike shoes to Ford Motor Company to Papa John's Pizza.

This is true in Second Life and in the real world.

If (and ONLY if) you have permission to use the trademark can you use it without worrying about the trademark holder using legal means to stop you.

Ummm...no. It is a case by case basis but as a general rule you can assume that most companies do not want their trademarks being used without their specific authorization in Second Life or anywhere else.

No technically you should not be using any trademarks unless someone has said otherwise.

There is one case I know of that you can use the trademark because it has been published and this is in the Case of Coca Cola (tm)

All other cases you should consider you are not allowed to use the insignias etc. There is a way to be allowed to use their little rubber stamps so to speak (brand name) and its to ask permission.

Remember its only the actual name that is the issue. You can make some really cool running shoes or other stuff and not use the little mark etc and be A okay. If you desperatly want to use the Nike SWOOSH that's thier trademark you need to ask.

If i makea pair of levis the name is the TM i can't call them levi's I can call them jeans and make up my brand

shoes are shoes and jeans are jeans.

What you have to understand is that you can't use a name or insignia if there is a little TM beside it. (the only acception is if you go and get permission)

So basicaly all those guys selling stuff ingame are taking a risk of being shut down or worse. Is it worth the risk? I would say no, but that is just me


added after if you get permission get it in writing and I would take a shot of it (scan it into the computer or whatever) and stick it on the wall of my store hopefully it will contain all pertinent information so that if someone comes along and says your violating a trademark you can point refuse to close your shop and tell them to contact the people in the letter

thats how its done basically

Its stange there are people going around Sl with nike signs on their heads seling Nike Goods. And LLAbs has not stopped them for breaking copywrite. Now if this was a small scale i can understand LLAbs not seeing it. But its high scale stealing now with NIKE images showing up everwhere! Is LLABS now turning their heads to this once again? BTW its not just NIKE copy write breaking now. Its getting worse with other brand names being copyed!...

Usagi

It is absolutely not in Linden Lab's interest to police trademarks on their own time. It's the same issue as with internet service providers, or web hosters, or whatever - if they police on their own time, they'll be doing nothing else. They'll respond to takedown notices when delivered, I'm sure, but expecting content carriers to police their userbase will simply kill user-created content. Nobody would pay the rates it would cost to support the monitoring staff. And, any attempt to police trademark on their own time for any case, will create an expectation that they should do it for -all- trademarks... simply impossible (just look at the US trademark registry sometime. Never mind internationally.)

I also don't think the use of trademarks within second life is so clear-cut illegal - you can use trademarked brand names within a work of fiction, as long as they are actually representing the brand properly, showing it similar to how it is in the real world. You don't read a novel and find the hardboiled detective drinking Sudmiser beer and smoking Marmolo cigarettes... people go ahead and use the real, trademarked brand names. OTOH, if I were running an SL business lucrative enough to be turning lindens into dollars, I would not take the chance, personally, on trying to argue in court whether or not SL is a 'virtual world' or an 'interactive fiction'. But if I was a machinamator I wouldn't balk at my plotline-characters using branded products if I thought it was artistically appropriate.

YMMV, IANAL, etc.

But that's not the kind of use that is being discussed here and that exception simply doesn't apply where the virtual goods are knock offs of real life apparel, accessories, cars etc. That's use of the mark in commerce and there is no legal ambiguity about whether the player selling the goods is guilty of trademark infringement.

You're right about the policing matter though. In the real world governments do not proactively police against trademark infringement. That's the job of the companies that hold the trademarks and that is how it should be in Second Life. Linden Lab's only responsibility should be to remove the content once notified and if the infringement continues, eventually ban the player.

So far most companies really have not taken notice of the trademark infringement going on in Second Life and so it continues unabated but that can change quite quickly if the Second Life population continues to grow.