PSP and Alpha Channels (Yes, I have used the tutorials)

I have just finished running my texture through the tutorial at:

http://www.sluniverse.com/kb/article.aspx?id=10190

5 times...which means I just spent L$50 uploading textures...and it comes out that my ENTIRE texture is transparent. Sure, the parts I have "labeled" to be transparent are more trans. than the rest of the texture, but the fact remains that the whole texture can bee seen through. It just won't do.

Am I missing something very easy? Is there something very messed up with my texture? Like I said...I've redone it 5 times...ensuring that I followed the tutorial to the tee...

Essentially, it's a texture with windows...and if you can see through walls, windows are ridiculously unnecessary

I'm currently in world and will be the rest of the day...also help on the forums would be appreciated.

Update...I have now completely rebuilt my texture in PSP, gone through the tutorial EXACTLY once more...(well, twice actually)...and uploaded...wasting another L$20 on textures that are beautifully transparent in the windows and partially transparent throughout! I'm so frustrated with the project...Hoping that maybe someone here uses PSP and is familiar with the alpha channels and knows what I'm doing wrong (computers only know 1 and 0, they can't be wrong So it has to be me).

I just can't figure it out...heh.

Alpha channels are a challenge. This thread should help you avoid the thousands of Lindens many of us burned... /109/f2/34963/1.html

Heh...read all three pages of the post...and thanks for sharing link with me btw...problem still not solved

EXACT nature of problem: Transparency seems to work as far as that the places I choose to be transparent on the alpha channel show up much more transparent than the rest of the texture...but the rest of the texture shows up partially transparent as well. Just not gonna work...even if it is kinda interesting.

I don't use PSP, but it really sounds as if the black parts of your Alpha map aren't 100% black. I could tell you how to check, using the Info panel, in Photoshop. If there's an equivalent in PSP you might want to take a look.

There is also a video tutorial by Cristiano Midnight in this thread that might help you.

If all else fails, I'd be happy to look at your image, and tell you if the Alpha is totally black or not. PM me if you want me to do that.

Thank you for the Flash tutorial link Robin. I'm going to run through the process again...but might end up having to send you the file (I'm pretty sure my black/white is correct).

NP. I'll be happy to look at it for you.

For anyone who is following this thread; I met Kenn in game.

He'd built a stunning airplane, and was having problems not with the alpha of his texture, which was perfect, but with the Alpha Sorting thing. The back side of the plane was showing through the front, since the texture was wrapped around the cylinder.

I suggested that he might have to make several pieces to help work around the problem; but if anyone else has a better suggestion, I'm sure that he would welcome it.

If the only problem is the cylinder that makes up the fusilage, there's an easy fix. Put another cylinder inside it with a slightly smaller diameter. Make sure the smaller one does not have an alpha texture on it. The presence of the 24 bit texture in between the two instances of the alpha texture will negate the sorting issues.

Also make sure alpha textures are used only where absolutely necessary. It's a common mistake among new testurers to assume more bits must be better than less bits so they end up making everything 32 bit. That's the worst thing you can do. Use 32 bit textures ONLY when it's absolutely necessary to have part or all of the texture be see-through. If it's opaque, use 24 bit ALWAYS.

Yes, Robin was a great help in game and I'm glad that I wasn't making mistakes in PSP. Heh...I could have sworn I had that part right

Thanks for the advice on the alpha-sorting Chosen...and yes, I'm only using alpha textures where necessary.

to follow up on chosen's note, i would add that while you cannot set a prim to 100% transparency in the "edit" window, you can now with the script llSetAlpha.

http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka.php?wakka=llSetAlpha

so if it helps to interpose a non-alphaed yet transparent prim to prevent alpha-fighting, you can use this script to get 100% invisibility (i haven't tried this particular application in world however)

That's a great idea, Chosen, but I'm not sure it will help in this particular case, since Kenn needs windows both inside and outside the plane. The ones inside look fine, of course, but if he put a solid (non-alpha) prim inside the fusilage, wouldn't that block the windows there?

Or am I missing something obvious. (It's been a long couple of weeks, and I'm not, to put it mildly, functioning at 100%; so I easily could be. )

The rest of the plane isn't having any problems. It's a very impressive piece of work, especially for someone who is new to the game. Kenn does his homework!

Okay, I just spent a few minutes in-world trying things out. (Sorry that I didn't have a chance to do this earlier, Kenn.)

When I put a texture with an alpha on a cylinder, hollow the cylinder, and put a non-alpha texture on the inside, there is no sorting problem. But, of course, there are no windows inside the cylinder either.

If the 32 bit texture goes on the inside, and a 24 bit on the outside, there are no sorting problems (of course, since the textures don't overlap.) But there are also no windows on the outside.

When I put a second, non-alpha cylinder inside the plane, there are no sorting problems. But since what I see through the windows from the outside is the opaque cylinder, I'm not sure it's what Kenn has in mind.

If I put a texture with an alpha on the inside of the second cylinder, I can see out just fine, however. (In other words, it's the opposite of the problem I guessed at in the post above; the inside windows work fine, it's the outside ones that don't work very well.)

If I use 24 bit textures on the second cylinder, and then use the Transparency controls to make it as much as 1% Transparent, there are sorting problems. (It was a good idea, Forseti, but SL doesn't seem to care where the transparency comes from, 32 bit texture or panel.)

It seems to me that Kenn can have a 1 prim fusilage, but then his windows will be opaque on either the inside or the outside. All it takes is a 24 bit texture, applied to either the inside or outside of the prim. (Kenn, if you don't know how to texture the inside and outside differently, let me know.)

Or he can use 4 prims, but there will still be sorting problems from some angles.

If it was my plane, I'd probably opt for what look like heavily tinted windows on the outside, and allow the passengers to see out. Personally, I've never been able to see the people inside a plane anyway.

As I mentioned in the post above, I may very well be missing something. But this is what the experiments I just ran came up with.

Anyone have any idea if the new engine - Havoc 2, isn't it? - is supposed to eliminate the sorting thing? I watch my partner playing Everquest 2, and wish our render engine could do those things!

Wow! You've really put lots of work into helping me Robin! I'm going to agree with you on opaque windows outside with windows you can see out of inside...I just have no idea how to put different textures inside/outside

I managed to finish a 4 prim fuselage and it did look good, but you're right, from certain angles there are problems.

I sure hope the Havoc 2 fixes sorting problems!

Thanks to everyone for the help, and thank you Robin immensely for your serious efforts!

You're right. I was thinking it was a smaller type of plane that wouldn't have windows all throughout, just at the front. What you can do in this case, assuming the windows are in a row near the middle on each side, is put 2 cyliners inside the big one, both cut in opposite directions to the level of the row of windows. This way, the alpha overlap would be blocked everywhere except where the windows are. If the cylinder is large enough, there's probably already enough space inbetween the windows on each side that they won't fight with eachother.

That's a great idea, Chosen, and would also solve the alpha sorting problem Kenn was having with grass and the bottom of the plane from the inside, at a cost of only 2 prims.

I wish I'd thought of it.