Meshes and UV maps.. (a rant)

You can count on my vote for such a proposition! After using Maya & 3D Studio MAX, coming into SL is almost kid's play yet not. Know what I mean?

Now if I can figure out how, I'd love to make a (no jokes!!) "boned" Poser Figure of the SL Avatars with the correct joints, joint names, etc.

Thanks for the info to Abu and Chip. I have Poser 5 which I have only used for animation so far. It does UV mapping but it doesn't look like it does multiple channels. I am interested in making skins. Would it be worthwhile for me to invest in one of these 3D programs and if so, what do you recommend?

Sylivia, I wouldn't recommend spending the money on a 3d animation package like Max or Maya unless you intend to use it for a lot more than just SL. 3ds Max retails for around $4000 usd. Maya is more than that. They're fantastic programs for 3d modeling, texturing, and animation, but the steep learning curve and high price makes them impractical for SL purposes unless you have other reasons for investing in them. You might want to take a look at Bodypaint or DeepPaint 3D. They aren't modelers or animation packages, but instead are dedicated soley to 3d paint and UV editing. They're also reasonably affordable (under $1000 I believe). In general though you don't need anything but a good paint program and patience to create high quality textures for SL.

I would certainly be willing to be that "someone," but I am an amateur at texture creation and clothing design...I've only just started designing in the past couple months. My feeling is that there are far more experienced designers on these boards who could offer more succinct and accurate suggestions for how the avatar should be mapped -- yourself being an obvious example, Chosen.

I also hate to see multiple entries for the same feature request, where the proposed solutions are different...it dilutes the votes, which makes it less likely the proposal will be reviewed and included for development.

Actually it's less, but we're still talking multiple thousands of dollars.

It depends which version you're talking about. The price for Maya Complete has been cut in half since the Autodesk/Alias buyout. It used to be around $4000; now it's just $2000. Maya Unlimited, however, has actually gone up a thousand dollars this year. It's now $7000, up from $6000 last year.

While Maya Complete is still a spectacular program, it's the features of Maya Unlimited that really set Maya apart from all other 3D apps as the industry leader. Most everything that makes modern CGI movies & special effects what they are comes from those features. That includes fluid effects, cloth, hair, built in scene compositing to integrate 3D content into 2D footage, advanced support for multiple complex dynamic simulations, and a few other things.

If your needs only go as far as modeling and basic animation, then the new lower price tag for Maya Complete is wonderful. They really should never have been charging as much as they were for it in the past, so it's about time it became more reasonable. If you want to make the kind of stuff you've seen in the Incredibles or Lord of the Rings though, Maya Complete will only take you part of the way there. Maya Unlimited is the must-have for that level of work.

I don't know the stats, but I'd assume they sell a lot more Unlimited than Complete, so I'd say it's a reasonable statement to say that Maya costs more than Max, generally speaking. If you get a Cadillac with no options, it might cost less than a Chevy with all the options, but I'd still say Cadillacs cost more than Chevies in general.

Actually there was one awesome tool that a company that died a swift death that made sims meshes awesome:3dmenow. I still have a copy of it. It had a sims plug in that I used for everything. hell I made the entire cast of Big brother USa 4.
I feel you. However, I wish that now with open source someone can figure out a way to upload prims other than the blender tool. I like the blender tool (i dont like blender though) and I like sketch up sort of. (easy to use, but no real mesh or vertex control)
Really, all we need for the avatars is 2 more clothes meshs. Ones for the female gowns and such. we have actually figured out everything else.

I think we need a new mesh for every type of clothes that doesn't want to look painted on. Even skin tight pants should stretch across the butt instead of giving the avitar a wedgie.
Most tops should stretch across the chest instead of clinging to each breast. And the female avitar's groin? What in the world is up with that? You can't even make a realistic nude skin on that. Than there's the shoes: even with invisi-prims they look wrong. There's no reason why we couldn't start with an adjustable mesh that would give natural looking feet and shoes with out invisi-prims.

It can't be be discussed to absolute exhaustion cause designers wishes are still unaccounted.
After three days exploring SL I asked myself the same question
(if LL found random amateurs to build the skirt?).

Perhaps LLs modelers might have a look in an anatomic book too?
The human ears position is the height of the eyes, not that of the mouth.
(Furthermore animals ears are much higher)
The fitting of eyewaer looks so curious in SL.
For me, the residents ears are only a secondary aspect just now.


I'm new in SL, at first I have had a look on the anchors of the skirt!
First I uploaded the UV-templates to use them for skin-tests in SL.
Hoped, in this way I could judge the uploaded clothes.

I became so dissapointed and angry while creating a well fitting dress.
I tested all sliderpositions, it's impossible to create a fashionable (italian business) style.

To hide that awful skirt, all Ladies in SL have to wear those curious petticoats used in the fifties or look like little princesses.

Otherwise, only dressed with this "Skirt", they would look like a pregnant cow or a transvestite with an strong erection.


Several anchors are really misplaced.

1) The hips-anchor-point is an angle , BezierCurves would fit much better on every body.
2) The skirt-anchors in front, those in the height of the thighs, have a too large distance to the body itself.
3) The front and back skirt-slits are too high for walking 'like a Lady'.
It's impossible to walk without everyone let looking at the garters.
If it's scheduled, alphachannels will do. ))

Perhaps LL has women in the team?
LL should ask them, I am certain that they will tell them the same observations that I had made.



I spoke with many designers in SL, they all complain of the same problems that I have observed.

We really believe, that JUST NOW is the best time to correct it, otherwise more Users have to change their clothes when SL would have more users and patrons.

Fashion is a mighty aspect in the real world, and now also in the virtual world.
If LL wants more acceptance from the Female propulation of SL,
they should seriously consider and include my raised issues and points.


I know, for a good developer it's no large effort to adjust the sliders for the criticized skirt.

I hope good designers will feel comfortable with SL-fashion soon?


With kindly regards,

Lunata Lupino

(I'm a German ScreenDesigner, experienced in 3D-Studio Max, and specialized in mappings and textures.)

A brand-new, full, non-discounted copy of LightWave 9.0 is only $795.

With it, it's possible to remap the mesh to something that makes sense, apply a fabric texture to the Mesh using that map, burn those textures to the Linden UV Maps, and then open them in your favorite graphics program to add details.

Presto! Instant, perfect, no-seam fabric.

It's what I do.

And yeah, it's not cheap; but if you are selling clothing regularly in SL already, how many hours would you save, and how much is your time worth per hour? How long would such a program take to pay for itself, if it allowed you to double or triple your output? And with superior clothing, I might add?

I absolutely agree that this isn't a solution for someone who is just starting out, and has no experience with graphics programs, and no idea how to sell things in SL. But for those who do, and do, it could well be worth the investment.

For $100 more, you can get a full copy of Modo, which is reputed to have better UV Mapping tools. (I wasn't able to use the Demo, and need to contact Luxology about that, so I can't vouch for it; but I've been told that.)

Modo also has a really superior seamless tiling solution (ImageSynth) built in, and allows you to paint on the model.

You might want to try the demo of one or both of these programs, and see.

And yeah, I heartily agree with all of you about the current mesh. Hopefully, the Lindens will do something about it.

Even using a "real" 3D program can't give us two arms, two feet, or two eyes. Sigh.

Okay, ImageInk in Modo 202 looks uber tasty.

I can't believe how ugly the skirts in Second life are! Its really stupid. And you say its takes only 20 minutes to correct..so why can't they fix it? How long has it been, maybe 5 whole years? and we still have these ugly prehistoric skirt shapes. If they did something as simple as this, it would change so much about second life.