Body Paint 3D

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bodypaint3d_e.html

Has anyone used this? And does anyone know if you can import the SL Character meshes into this program?

Never used it, but I'm pretty sure you can import the SL avatars.

More important question is : can it export your 3d paint work into SL pre-mapped textures, managing these D*** seam lines? That would be BRILLIANT.

BTW, many thanks and congrats Johan for SLCP, the PPC version just saved my life, the second one actually

Bodypaint can do that for sure.

The best tool to creat texture for myself.. togerther with Zbrush.

Bodypaint is integrate in Cinema4D 3D program, and as plugin for Maya and some other i think... It can impoert Sl mesh, and work as photoshop layers.. even export and import them perfectly..
A must have, and a must Use.

Yes you can, and Robin Sojourner was kind enough to provide customized avatar meshes for Bodypaint, with corresponding PSD files:

http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/SL-Tuts/SLDownloads/SLAvatars-BodyPaint.zip

Zatann McMahon, yes I have used it. It takes a bit of getting used it but you can use it to make stuff that requires you to cross seams without leaving those nasty things in.

I got an older version (2), and am having trouble with applying projections... it doesn't want to WRAP the texture around.. it kinda shines like a flat light, so too far around an edge, and the rest of the image doesn't get applied, or gets stretch really badly.

It does seem like cool program but its bit too expensive for my budget.
Does the file look work for Adobe PS or just Maya?

hmmm,
don't you think guys that PS Extended will be a good competitor?
With its 3d 'painting' features?

As far as I'm aware Photoshop doesn't do 3D paint, it has a 3D viewer for normal painting. That's similar but different; you aren't painting directly on the 3D model, you are painting normally and seeing the results applied to a 3D model.

a bit like SLCP?

True, but the advantage is you get to use Photoshop's tool set for painting, which beats the snot out of Body Paint's tools any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Unfortunately, the universal shortcoming of 3D painters in general is that the actual painting tools always seem to be dreadfully underpowered. I've never been able to understand why. Also, they tend to be buggy, or at the very least, highly quirky. Combine that with LL's ridiculous UV mapping on the avatar, and it's fairly difficult to do much high quality work by trying to painting directly on the model.

That said, I have not yet tried the latest version of Body Paint. I just know that I was more than a bit disappointed with the previous version. I'll give the demo a try when I get a little free time and see if it's improved any.

Whether it has or it hasn't, I'll say this much. If you're looking for something to spend $900 on, Photoshop CS3 Extended is a much better investment. If you want to buy Body Paint after that, go for it, but don't settle for a lesser version of Photoshop if saving up for something like Body Paint is your reason.



A bit. The difference is you don't have to keep flipping back and forth between programs to refresh file links as you make changes. In Photoshop Extended, you see the changes on the model as soon as you hit Save. This shaves anywhere from 5-30 seconds or so with every refresh, which over the course of the day, adds up to several hours.

Just out of curiosity and off the topic(Sorry), is this the type of program that skin makers use to get that really good looking realistic skin? Or are they actually just using programs like Photoshop?

In most cases, it's Photoshop.

Either way though, remember, it's not the software that makes the skin "realistic" or not. It's the artist. Software doesn't know what "make it look real" means; it's just a tool.

Oh for sure, if it's an either-or choice then get Photoshop. I was just pointing out the difference.

And is there any bodypaint tutorial for SL, u can do nice things with it but i cant find the form to bake the textures

I used AVPaint for a few things. AVPaint is a program which is much simpler, and cheaper, than something like bodypaint. But it does allow you to paint directly on the avatar. I used it in one of two ways...

#1) For marking out on the avatar where I wanted certain features to appear. I would then import the marked textures into photoshop and paint over them with real painting tools.

#2) For correcting tiny seam imperfections. For this, it was invaluable in terms of getting perfect matches since you can paint right over the seam.

In no sense, however, is a tool like this going to give you a "realistic" skin. Realistic skins (and I use that word correctly, not simply to mean "good" or "beautiful" are only really going to happen one of two ways (that I can think of).

a) You used a photoreference and a 3d modelling tool and basically wrapped the photographic reference photos onto the avatar model. This is the approach Namssur takes. Of course, there will be significant artistic work involved in the cleanup and tuning after the initial photosource step to actually make it look good. I'm sure namssur could comment on the extent of this "clean up' work but I am certain it is just as hard as method b below, just attacking from a different direction.

b) You used a 3d modelling tool to actually model human skin, including bump maps, color maps, subsurface scattering, and one or more surface shaders controlling the specular highlighting. Then, once you have a convincing base skin texture, go and place the major features on it -- eyes, nose, etc. This is how I did it.

I suppose there is a third option also... you are the most incredible artist I have ever known *laughs*. The reason it is very very hard to just "paint" a convincing skin is that skin is an extremely complex surface both regarding it's surface properties (bumpiness, oiliness, etc) and it's the fact that it is translucent so you are actually seeing multiple layers of skin cells, fat cells, veins, etc each reflecting light in different ways.

In all cases though, the heavy lifting of making the skin actually look good is going to be done in a serious 2D paint program such as photoshop. There's just too much cleanup to do no matter what your method is for anything else to work.

Thank you both very much! I've been very curious about skins, as is most people out there and was going to start playing around with some. In the end I'd like a good solid finished product, not something that looks like I made it with the appearence sliders. Knowing I can do all this in Photoshop helps big time!

I apprecite it very much for the response, wish me luck! *laugh* I'll certinaly need tons of it from what I gather.

Brandi, How about Nam for short. Then you don't need to worry abou the "ssor" part

Chosen is right , for the most part, but Marijane's question about what tools skinners use is also relevant. Almost anything requiring technical proficiency to produce (like skinning) needs a measured and interconnected combination of skill, knowledge, tools, and time. The combination of some skill, time, knowledge of Photoshop and how it can be used in combination with another 3D modeling program (which you also have good knowledge and skill in using) WILL take the skinning to the next level, if not through the quality of output, then certainly in the time required to get there.

As far as having to be some exalted master of the artistic universe to render photorealistic skin - I don't think it is THAT difficult. I've done it with an airbrush and paint, and so has this guy:

http://www.drublair.com/comersus/store/tica.asp

WOW That is amazing! Thanks for posting the link, gives me hope that one day, when I'm about 90 I'll be able to do something 1/4 as good!

oh thank you thank you *laughs* By the way Nam... I really admire your work. And I admire the way that you, along with a few others, are also willing to help out the newcomers like me rather than hoarding your knowledge as a competetive advantage. I haven't exactly said it before, but thank you. As I said in a different post, if you had had a paler version of Evie, I probably never would've gotten into making my own. As an interesting bit of feedback for your next effort, my husband passed on your male skin (adam I think) because, in his mind, it was too realistic. It leapt out from the general background of SL in a way that he found discomforting. I'm not sure what you can make of that other than it's not possible to please everyone, but i thought I'd pass it on.


How silly of me to think that a sufficiently skilled and talented 2d artist could not produce truly photorealistic work. In hindsight, my comment speaks more to my (almost nonexistent) skills than what is possible.

Eh, I definatly lack skills, kind of. I'm self teaching myself Photoshop, so I don't know all the ins and outs yet, I've just been reading tons of posts and tutorials, but I heard some comment, on the slex forums..something to the effect that with the right 3d software the skin makers can pop them out like a dime a dozen. I can't say otherwise but it definatly got me looking deeper at making skins *laugh*

I'd need to see the full context of that quote before I could discern its meaning. I suspect that either it wasn't meant as simply as it sounds, or that whoever said it just didn't know what he or she was talking about. I don't care what software you've got; making ANYTHING of quality takes time. As I said before, it's the artist that produces the work, not the software.

I'm going to have to agree with Chosen here. There are several different paths to getting a high quality skin. And none of them are easy. All of them involve significant artistic interpretation. Yes, there are tools such as blender that can do some pieces for you in an automated fashion. However, all that does is transfer the "art" part of it from a question of photoshop and brushes to a set of decisions in terms of shaders and other arcane 3d settings. In the end, you start with a blank slate and end up with something. No matter what tools you are using, someone had to tell the computer in some fashion what to end up with. I know of no tool where you can just press the magic "make me a good skin" button.

It would be tempting for the unitiated to take what nam does and say "Oh, how easy.. just grab some model reference photographs, paste em onto the avatar mesh, bake it out again, and *presto*, I'm golden... *laughs*.

reality goes something more like this...
a) paste the images to the mesh as decals
b) setup your lighting
c) setup your ambient along with any surface shaders
d) bake out the textures
e) swear and curse for hours while you cleanup the seams
f) now start looking at the vaguaries of the SL avatar lighting system because your "perfect photograph" skin looks awful in the lighting engine of SL
g) now start pondering WHY, exactly, the avatar mesh was design by crack smoking monkeys and start fixing all the defects cause by the almost incomprehensible mesh
h) now start making compromises... lots and lots of compromises, trying to balance out various design constraints. Do those butt cheeks look great when you're standing up? Perfect because they look awful when you're bent over. What about the neck, inner thighs, sides of the torso, etc. etc. All of these areas of "issues" that need to be balanced.

You migth argue that once you're good at it, the first 4 steps are going to be easily repeatable. Unfortunately, it is the later steps that will actually make what you did in those first 4 steps look good. It is also those steps that are going to take a lot of time.

All of this was just a long winded way of saying what Chosen said. Bottom line is that there is no simple way of producing anything of quality. Not food, not furniture, and not SL clothes and skins.

Nam that photo realistic image was quite impressive. I am a self taught artist still learning. I would love to get to point I could draw or even paint that well.