New Copyright Threat Warning

i -do- also offer the same original bodyoils as m/c/nt. now exactly how does that help here?? i'm unclear.

I just don't accept that these figures are realistic.

Firstly, it may take an artist some time to create their first skin, but after that, future skins are based on the original design, and often mean a simple shading of the skin tone or even just reusing the body textures as they stand. Many "new" skins are in reality just a new head. The artists have already done much of the groundwork in creating the templates and layers that are used to build each skin. This too does not need to be repeated.

Your 1500 a week for advertising....that makes up for 4/5 of the weekly cost is also an optional and probably pointless expense. There is little point in paying to be on page 3 of any search, as most users wont click thru that far. Also, I think that most skin sellers get their customers through word of mouth, either as a recommendation from a friend or from a website or blog.

The SL economy is different from the real economy. Anyone using SL recognises that. People in SL adapt their prices to this economy. Speak to a business consultant in SL and it might cost you a 1000L. Try gettting anything from the same guy in RL for 4 bucks! Why should a dancer that may earn 500L for an hours work, and accepts that as part of the game pay costs for skins that are designed to recoup RL levels of earnings for skin makers.

Let's take Redgrave as an example as they seem to be one of the most popular skins at the moment. The skins are probably reasonably priced at about 1000L, but that is for a single make-up. Now the store is always packed, and I be surprised if she sells less than 200 skins a week, not to mention all the (very good) clothes available as well. That equates, on skin sales to around $800 a week, as a minimum, I would guess, for just the skin sales.I expect this figure is much higer, possibly by an order of magnitude. She must be doing pretty well, as she seems to have bought the sim! Given that money is being made in quite large quantities here, why shouldn't I feel aggrieved if I have to pay another 1000L just to get a different tan or lip color.

You also seem to forget that in the real world, if you sell something, you have to source it, pay manufacturing costs etc. In SL, once you have made it, any sales are pure profit.

Let's not get into this area of trying to equate SL business with RL business. The two are very dissimilar.

My point is that because you sell your oils as transferrable, they could be passed around from one person to another, thus allowing the same item to be reused by something like Enkidu's process. If all your oils were M/C/NT, then it wouldn't happen.

Now I'm not saying that you should be bending over to accommodate someone else's business in the way you apply your perms, but if it is something that would allow many other users to have a better SL then maybe it's something to think about.

Incidentally, why do you provide them with both types of perms? I can understand why you would sell a transferrable version, that has some use if people have alts. But why have a copy version that is not transferrable? Are people likely to want to mod your artwork?

"My point is that because you sell your oils as transferrable, they could be passed around from one person to another, thus allowing the same item to be reused by something like Enkidu's process. If all your oils were M/C/NT, then it wouldn't happen."

... poking a finger into a dam, that is, and that does nothing to prevent the underlying process used to rip textures. and that was not why she brought it up in the first place...

"Sell the base skin as M/C/NT and sell the different make-ups as M/C/NT textures. Copy the skin, wear the copy, edit appearance, click skin, drop new make-up texure on the skin, save and done."

... the sl client does not even work like that. that replaces the skin, it does not add makeup to it.

"Now I'm not saying that you should be bending over to accommodate someone else's business in the way you apply your perms, but if it is something that would allow many other users to have a better SL then maybe it's something to think about."

... goshdarn right i won't be bent over - i already bend over backwards to run an honest trade here. your 'advice' so far does not offer anything to help here.

"Incidentally, why do you provide them with both types of perms? I can understand why you would sell a transferrable version, that has some use if people have alts."

because anyone seeking to enter into a trade in sl faces only a limited combination of permissions to work with. the 'rw' paradigm is to sell m/nc/t, as one would buy shirts or jeans in a real-life store. that was how i started out, but then received a number of requests for copiables. and in general, "nobody doesn't like copiables," so i just made the same set available with different permissions.

"But why have a copy version that is not transferrable?

... this doesn't even require a response. would you -please think harder- before posing such a question??

"Are people likely to want to mod your artwork?"

... they have been doing this -without- my permission anyways, within a few months of my first launch.

pardon me for saying so, but you are grossly out of touch with even the basic processes of actual skin editing, let alone practicing in a grid trade... or you're just fishing for stupid people to fall for your 'advice'. additionally i will add, "i'm not going to do your homework for you." i've already done my own; i don't have the time to do it for others (especially those so unwilling to learn).

i've spoken my peace and am done with this thread; the OPs and other reasonable persons along the way have already had our discussion. now i'm back to work (which includes detective work to bust those continuing to illegally profit from my creations).

This is clearly the point that Kitty was making and you fail to understand. I am aware of how the SL skin process works. If you have a copiable and moddable skin then you can make a copy of it. This copy can be edited by dropping a new texture onto part of it. If the skin maker has provided the texture for the head part with the different makep, this can be dropped onto that part and hey presto, you have a new skin with a new makeup. She isn't talking about editing the original skin. You would end up with a second NT skin with the new makeup. This would be fine, because that would have been the reason the skin maker sold you the NT texture in the first place.

Kitty's point is that this approach is available to sellers if they choose to use it, and they shouldn't be blaming LL avi architecture and saying there is NO way to do this except thru reselling the whole skin.

Distributing raw textures is a non-starter.

It's a non-starter to *you*, there is at the very least at least one store that did/does handle different make-ups that way.

The head texture would be "no transfer" so the viewer isn't going to let you save it to disk in and by itself. It won't stop anyone from grabbing the texture anyway but if they're going to go through that effort it's just as easy to just grab the whole skin.

What else can you do with it? You could apply it to a prim which isn't anything of a risk. You could snapshot the texture preview but the effort involved in reconstructing the alpha (let alone the fact that if the skin itself is transparent it's plain impossible to reconstruct) would make that a rather dumb way and they'd still need to grab the upper and lower body from the skin itself through different means (random skin A's head isn't going to look any good on random skin B's body) so they might as well do the head that way as well.

Whether you sell make-ups as a full skin, or sell a neutral base skin and the heads as make-ups "add-ons" entails *exactly* the same risk.

Not that this had anything to do with the orginal topic .

Yes, it's a non-starter for me, and by your own admission, virtually everyone else who sells skins. And once again we're back to laying blame for a poorly designed system on the people who are most hamstrung by it.

Skin add-ons should be able to be packed in an inventory object exactly the same way clothing items and the skins themselves are, and worn in any combination without having to expose the raw textures. If that were to happen the skin, tattoo, and makeup markets would provide exactly the functionality everyone wants without exposing artists to unnecessary risks. You could buy a base skin from one person, lips from someone else, eye makeup from another, tattoos from yet more merchants, and on and on. That we don't currently have such a system in not the fault of skin and tattoo makers.

I appreciate your concerns Chip, but isn't the genie already out of the bottle? Anyone with the capability and desire to steal your textures can do so at will anyway. Meanwhile, everyone else has to put up with the poor LL system because you and your fellows want to keep the gate closed after the horse has already bolted. Kitty's proposal is perfectly workable if you guys consider the majority of your customers as honest rather than potential rip-off artists.

There is no risk *points to her previous post*. Whatever risk you want to highlight is one that already exists right now and providing the head textures separate wouldn't make anything more risky.

Uhm... just to be sure: with make-up I mean the entire "head tattoos texture" portion of the skin. Not any particular layer that needs to be combined with anything else outside of SL, but the full "head tattoo" texture you drop on a skin inside SL.

The bit that bright this derail up was that the only difference between a particular skin line's make-up A and make-up B is in the head texture, with the argument that people already paid for the upper and lower body textures the first time around.

It's the difference between paying L$1k 10 times for 10 different make-ups, or paying say L$2500 for the base - neutral make-up - skin and then L$500 per different head make-up texture which is more in line with the actual effort it took to create those different make-ups which is a fraction of the time it took to create the whole skin.

I simply disagree about the relative risk. Of course the risk is always going to be there no matter what, but that's no reason, imo, to throw caution to the wind. Using a 3rd party texture ripping program isn't something the average person knows how to do or necessarily cares to learn, but anyone can use prtscn. The difference in difficulty may be the difference between someone doing something they shouldn't and someone not doing it. People who are comfortable with the risks are certainly free to go that route, but I don't think many people are comfortable with it. Those fears may be unjustified, but they're there, and they're a direct result of the system we're forced to work with. The point I was trying to make is that the reasons skins are typically sold the way they are has nothing at all to do with greed.

And everyone stops making skins and tattoos and oils and clothes and textures for objects because there's just no point, not worth it... and you have nothing to copy... and all the people who had a place like SL as a freely available & accessible source of second income are SOL and we're back to square one.

Lets be sensible about this. How much do you spend RL for a movie or a baseball game? You either feel its worth it, and pay or you don't and skip it. If people didn't feel the prices people charge in SL were worth it, they wouldn't buy and the creators wouldn't offer that product. Like it or not, the market sets the price. Often the people who are wearing "premium" products pay for them because they want to stand out, they want the extra work and quality. Well it takes skill and time and expensive programs to make it. And just like other premium products, people want them because they are more expensive and not everybody has them. If a Ferrari cost the same as a Ford...

Every once in a while I get a customer who wants something that's good, cheap and that nobody else has. Well, more power to them if they find it. I want that too but I can't find it and I can't do it.

No, the only ones who would stop making skins, tattoos, oils, clothes, and textures are the ones who are in the business for money only. I doubt even 2% of the creators in SL make much more than tier. The vast majority of creators do the stuff they do because the love doing it.......the income is secondary. Sure, some do depend on the little bit of RL money for extras, or to make SL pay for itself (making the game free, or nearly free), but that is not many at all. It's an available and assessible income source........but not dependable at all.

If all the money only motivated creators decided to stop making their wares the doors would open for the many more creators who make the stuff for the love of making it.......and those would be much more likely to be customer friendly. Better and more affordable products would be available. I think you have a bloated sense of your importance to the survival of Second Life........just as in RL, we all are replacable (including the most well known creators in the Second Life world).

And something is said about "something cheap and off the rack........more power to them" statement. That is an extremely elitist posture in my eyes. It says "my way or the highway". Spitting in your customer's eye. It narrows your customer base greatly. Loses your "bread and butter" customer base......and cuts off your very own foot.

But, all that just points out to me, again, what I've thought from the beginning (even before this thread) that many (not all) content creators in SL have the "me first" mindset. There is almost no thought at all for the people they say they are so generously creating for. It's not generous when you refuse to take any risks at all to provide a product that is wanted by many........you can flower your stance with pretty words, understanding our "frustrations", telling us you are just as frustrated as we and it will not change my mind until I see you take your customers desires to heart.

Pointing to the platform as the problem is more than a cop out. Everyone of you knew the flaws, limitations and problem before you got into the creation selling business. It's nothing more than an excuse.....and a very poor one at that. Using that flemsy copyright law is confusing the issue......a vaguely disquised threat to do it your way or face the consequences. You force us to play by your rules. Let us eat cake.........so to speak.

Not at all, Peggy. What you're seeing is market segmentation, the same as in RL. There are designers and clothing manufacturers in RL who create for Wal-Mart and Target and who do very well at it. Their work is never found in Macy's or Lord & Taylor, but that's not the segment of the buying public that it was aimed at. By the same token, you won't see Gucci or Yves St. Laurent creating clothing that is aimed at Wal-Mart. There's nothing "my way or the highway" about those decisions... it's a matter of where each designer decides to aim in the marketplace. Yes, indeed, it narrows the customer base, but that's the whole idea. It seems to me that a skin designer who wants to spend the time and effort and who has the talent to create a custom skin that is intended for the "exclusive" end of the market would be dumb to try and build an "off the rack" line as well. That's just poor marketing.

Peggy, did I run over your virtual dog or something? You've been yapping and nipping at my heels from word one of this thread, and I've tried to be nice, understanding and humorous about it, but frankly the novelty has worn off.

You say you understand words. Well understanding is fine but you also need to listen to comprehend and that seems to be something you refuse to do. You've proven to be a particularly thick brick wall and I'm tired of hurting my head, so this is the last time I'll direct any comments to you. I won't be drawn into a flaming war, but I feel I need to address some of the personal attacks you've directed at me and my conduct.

You don't know me. You know nothing about me or how I conduct myself or my business in SL. If you did you'd know as many of my customers and friends do that I'm decent and generous and give away more product, time, and advice than is probably beneficial to my business. That I go out of my way to help and promote others and like seeing people enjoy my work so much that others have to tell me to stop giving it away, but like some of the examples I offered up, I NEED the meager few dollars I can wring out of SL and I bust my ass doing it. You go on and on about people screaming and shouting and claiming they've been hurt, but you're the only person who's been blowing up and protesting too loudly and behaving like anything is on fire.

Unless you are 13 and living with your parents (which wouldn't surprise me one bit) somewhere, somehow you are making a buck to pay your bills and feed yourself. WTF is wrong with that??? And if you are doing anything in your life to make a buck, where the hell do you come off telling us we can't?

So stop making me out to be some greedy, money grubbing, self centered and loathsome beast who's simply out to spoil everybody's fun.

Edit: I apologize for this long rant, I ended up rambling a bit in my original post and since it's up I'd rather not bowdlerize it after the fact


I don't entirely agree with the genie is out of the bottle argument but Chip it really is (see the link to glintercept on my sig if you don't believe me) but at the same time although you we could argue forever whether the price of skins is overpriced or whether the price is reasonable compared to the work that has to be put into it (and I realize and appreciate it's a lot of work) but I find it somewhat surprising that anyone actually has the gall to defend the extortion that goes on for minor changes. I realize that SL does not have a good system to deal with this (as has been pointed out above) and the permissions system sucks more than Britn.... nevermind, but there are ways and even if they require more work and more time (which I think given the alternatives customers should be fine with) to do or you are unwilling to even consider them is not a good excuse.

The reason that skin creators have gotten away with actions that are deplorable and if this were rl would be illegal, such as price fixing, is that with few exceptions, including one person who actually released a bunch of female skins entirely open source with the base files, the skin market is essentially a cabal. To explain why I think this... There are a few big name creators with big name stores, they have name brand recognition, big stores, private islands in the sl Caribbean (more rum, less pirates than the rl version), the barrier to entry to run anything resembling a successful store (defined in this case as successful enough to break even and make a large enough profit to continuing to justify having said store) is ridiculously high and even if you get off the ground if you aren't one of the big names and you haven't been networking with the right people there are serious issues.

Now one could say that about certain other aspects of SL (S*xg*n(censored to avoid trademark issues) for example) but non of the other pillars of sl (building, scripting, clothing, skins) is like this (although arguably clothing is close) and the markets for building and scripting are wide open even on the upper end of the skillset so it isn't just a lower level of skilled required. The base level of skill required for building and scripting is low of course and the base level for clothing and skins is high however when you get to the upper levels of all the pillars you get a high level of skill in all sets and only the abnormalities to the market of the clothing and skins market.

Can you understand how your attitude might sound like exactly that?

Edited to add: for reference, see Gordon's hate filled diatribe.

In Second LIfe? You're kidding, right? Eveyone wants to equate SL to RL.....it does not work. All those complicated hours spent on making a skin (or any texture) translated to RL time are useless (first and foremost after the initial investment of time the next process is next to no time spent at all..........I know because I have my saved files on the meager textures I make. Takes almost a minute to alter the shade or color of one of my textures............including load time for my graphics program). You have the Gucci's in RL........and the premium skin makers in SL. Gucci sells one of a kind..........premium skin makers sell well made "off the rack" skins. Macy's sell Levi jeans for $60 a pop..........Wal-Mart sells Wrangler jeans for $25. Who's a larger retailer? Who do most people shop at? Some people would never set a foot in Wal-Mart. Some people simply cannot afford to set foot in Macy's.......and that percentage of who won't and who can't is very much on the side of who can't. That marketing technique works in RL due to advertising and the lure of "exclusivity".....it only works on a small percentage of buyers in the scope of things. There is no "exclusivity" in SL..........and next to impossible to create such a market. However some creators (designers) would like for us to believe there is. Using what I consider the best skin in SL (but that is only my opinion) there is nothing that tells anyone who sees me in that skin that it's a Second Skin.......they ask if they want to know. I freely tell them what skin it is.......some ask the price. The price often does turn the interested away because they can go somewhere else and get a skin that will not be like mine but it will fill their needs. Some gasp and say "only $LXXXX"? and quckly ask for a LM. But, are Second Skin skins exclusive? No, no they are not.......I'm sure many have the exact same skin I wear. Namsorr does well, I'm sure with Second Skin......and that is mostly due to both quality and the services offered once you have purchased any skin. I'm willing to bet Second Skin is NOT the biggest money making business in SL either.

But, you know, we've really gotten way of topic. Enkidu has made a decision to stop his endeavors for what I think is a very much needed service in SL. And mostly due to this "OMG, that is going to kill my business" hysteria on the part of many creators. Threats of copyright and TOS violations to stop someone from doing an honest business because it can be exploited by the unscurpulous. Then we get ideas about the creators doing something similar......same argument. Someone may exploit the product. Well, as I've said a couple times, y'all knew the problems coming in. Instead of taking the risks and using what you have to protect yourselves as much as possible you simply shut down that service and point to Linden Lab as the cause.

So, y'all won........again.

Rudy, the problem with that is that many people (I won't say most because I don't know the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if it were most) do not buy L$ and/or do not sell L$ and therefore do not have any use or need of the conversion between the two economies. I do sell L$ on occassion however I personally don't make the comparison between SL prices and RL value as I do not buy L$ for use within sl and while you can buy L$ it is a fallacy that it means that the price of a loaf of bread in SL should be what the price of loaf of bread in rl would be (say US $3.00 / SL L$ 900) since the value of a digital asset is almost never comparable to it's rl counterpart unless your selling something that has both a rl and sl component.

I don't hate a single person in this thread. I certainly don't hate Chip since I consider his expertise on the texture end to be the highest source of knowledge. I don't know Rudee at all........but I suppose it does sound like he is the target of my ramblings. After all he started the thread with the "New Copyright Threat Warning" as the title. He also laid out the old and tired arguments against a person I also do not know to severly hender his starting of a business much needed in SL..........it worked too.

That is what upsets me.......the hysteria, the excuses, the squelching of anything that the group Rudee is really talking to percieves as a threat. The to hell with us attitude. You do have a corner on the market........not too many people have the skill or patience to do what any of you do. And you exploit that to the hilt.

And, Rudee...........no, I'm not a 13 year old. I don't live in my parents home. I have a full time job that requires not less than 40 hours a week from me. My income is such that I can afford to pay all my bills on time without supplimenting it with lindens coverted to USD's. I, too, am a very well liked person by many......some hate me because of my bluntness. Nothing I want to do to change that part of me........take me as I am or leave. It's your choice. I have not said you were a greedy person or anything else about your personally........if you picked that up from my posts then perhaps you might have seen a little of what I've said in yourself. I don't know.....it matters not to me.

It's the "band together" attitude that permeates discussions like these. You use the platform and refuse to compete. You tell exaggerated tales of copyright infringements and TOS violations.....that comes across as intimidation. It actually worked in the case of the subject of this thread. That is what I'm agruing against. Not at you in particular.....it's the attitude.

And I do read well........and my comprehension is also quite good. So save your suggestions about my intelligence for some other person.....you don't impress me.

I too wish that Enkidu had had a bit more courage to stand by his service. Time and again people that are trying to do something positive for the mass of SL users are browbeaten and bullied by the paranoia of others who prefer to punish the majority for the potential sins of a tiny minority. It seems to me that you guys are so busy worrying about the few Lindens you might lose out to pirates rather than embracing the huge potential increase in your business that you would get from the generality of SL users who would find the flexibility much better.

It seems to me that Enkidu, in trying to stick as far to the rules as he could wasn't hurting any of your businesses, but as usual, threats of the law and using a hammer to crack a nut win out over what seemd like pretty good intentions.

Now that the dreaded phrase has been used, I feel I can use it too. LL built an architecture that enables tools like GLIntercept to snag textures, and it is really extremely simple to use if people want to do that. Some will always do it, and some will profiteer from it, but in the run of things, the damage it does to your business will always be minimal. These suggestions that Rudee makes that there wont be any good content makers left if these things happen is totally spurious. These things have always happened, and still you guys are making good money. 99% of users will always buy repputable items from the actual dealers, because most people are basically honest.

I don't know how long he was operating, or how many people he has done, but I can pretty much guarantee that 100% of them think it was probably the best 300L they ever spent. And the SL experience of all those people has been made better. But hey, what's people enjoying their SL when compared to you guys making an extra few bucks here and there.

Oh, but there is, Peggy. Step into a place like Nicky Ree's. Look at the quality of clothing and the prices they command, and then wander through the hundreds of mall shops around SL that sell much lower quality clothing for lower prices. Or visit a sim that has beautiful builds created by one of our talented and high-priced building consultants and compare it to the stuff that is slapped together by people who barely know how to stack on prim on another. Market segmentation exists in SL, for practically any commodity .... animations, clothing, scripts, skins, vehicles, .... you name it. It's nothing to get upset about either. People recognize difference in quality, and understand that they often equate to differences in price. That's the way the market works in SL or in RL.

My point earlier was simply that it makes sense for any designer to aim at a segment of the whole market instead of trying to sell to everyone. I have a friend who sells luxury airplanes in SL. It would be dumb to try and sell them to, say, the Gorean community instead of aiming for people with McMansions. Not elitist....just good marketing sense.

I think that I'm broadly in agreement with what Peggy and Kiran are saying, and I don't think that the way I operated would have hurt the skin and tattoo creators, however there is another point you have missed. Whether you agree with it or not, the law is the law. We can't pick and choose. Often the law is stupid, biased or unfair, but it is the law.

In RL, I'm a teacher, so I can't afford to be mixed up in illegality. I teach because I want to put something back into a society that has been good to me. I did what I was doing in SL for the same reasons. I saw a way to make things better and leapt at the chance. I didn't think it would hurt anyone. I still don't. Equally i dont need the hassle of being threatened with the "full vigour of the law".

So, it seems bowing out gracefully is the best option. You may feel that this is some kind of moral cowardice, but at the end of the day, it's just a game.

Rudee and I got off on the wrong foot. I'm sure he's dealt with run of the mill texture thieves in the past, and his approach here was that I must be the same again. Maybe it's hard to trust people in the virtual world, but I try to take people as I find them rather than making assumptions before the issues are known. I respect the work that Rudee and all the tattoo and skin makers do, which is why I took every conceivable step within what I did to protect their rights. But buyers do have rights. It seems that when we buy a skin or a tattoo in SL, we are only actually renting it, that ownership resides with the maker. Perhaps this should be made clear at the time of purchase.

Rolig, I know you are not picking on me. I've read too many intelligent and polite posts by you on these forums to think otherwise. But, what I'm saying is that there is no exclusivity in SL.........you cannot equate a high end SL shop to an exclusive store in RL. Do any creators in SL make limited editions of their products? Even if they did what would be the value if the person could not purchase that limited edition product, use it, keep it for however long they wish then resell that limited edition at the appreciated value due to it's exclusivity. In RL (if I had the RL funds) I could purchase a $1500 Prada purse. Carry it for two years to anywhere I want. Find out that the purse is worth twice what I paid for it after those two years and decide to sell it so I can buy another limited edition Prada for $2000. That option just does not exist in SL......not the designers fault at all, but it does not exist.

What that boils down to is that all products created in SL are "off the rack" items. There is no incentive to make "limited edition" (call that exclusive) items.........and more important there is no incentive for anyone to purchase such items. If Chip Midnight or Namsorr Daquerre create a skin that has only sold 200 copies in a two year period, I believe they would be smart to either reduce the price or the retire the skin......at least that is what I would do. That skin, no matter how good it is, will never be an exclusive item.........the value will never go up (because it cannot be sold again). It's the way the platform is and is not anyone's fault. So there is no way anyone can compare RL marketing strategies with SL marketing strategies.........some similarities like putting your product in the eyes of the potential buyers, offering high quality, attentive customer service. But, that is all. No matter how long it took, how hard it was to make, or how unique it is it will only command what people are willing to pay for it. Unfortunitly there is also the risk of your creation being copied illegally. And if any creator put their business in SL without knowing that, they are foolish. And I doubt a single one of the well known (even not well known, but good) creators are foolish.

You cannot equate time spent on virtual creations for SL to material creations in RL. The mathmatics is done constantly......and impressively shows what people are doing with their time to make the products we all buy and enjoy. But trying to tell me that someone spent over 40 hours to create a single skin, then tell me that if there are 10 versions of that skins that that's 10 times the time it took to make the very first one. That is insulting to everyone's intelligence. That skin is "warehoused" on SL's servers at no cost to the creator. If the creater wants to offer a new "improved" version of the skin, all that needs to be done is to pull up the raw files stored on his computer make the necessary improvements and spend $L10 to upload...........possibly 30 mins if he gets distracted.

Aside from the accounting, where's the time after the first skin is made? A few minutes is all. The potential sales are almost unlimited for as long as the creator wants to keep that skin for sale. It costs nothing to warehouse the product. There is no "labor" cost to incure, no raw material to purchase, no deadline to meet. The price of the software to develop the product cannot be included in that calculation unless that software was purchased solely for creating textures that are exclusively used for SL products for sale. The math is impressive.......but it's not true.

I really don't think it all that important anyway........but don't try to convince me that RL marketing is the same as SL marketing. That is like telling me that flying a similator on my computer is equal to flying a real airplane in a real life sky. Some similarities.......but nothing like the same.

This is a digression from the topic. But I want to say to you, Rolig, I do not believe you are picking on me..........and I hope you know I'm not fighting with you either.

I, for one, wish you luck with your next inspiration............my name is easy to remember. Look me up when you find it.