With each update, the course of SL is becoming clearer.
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-16-2006 09:13
From: Burnman Bedlam I don't remember seeing anything about LL moving towards a mostly private island model... just some new estate management tools and sales automation for private islands. That's just streamlining one aspect of the business.
As for the idea that LL might simply become a "land hosting company"... I have yet to see a web hosting company that didn't have a TOS and the legal obligation to ensure illegal content isn't hosted on their servers.
It would be one hell of a headache to hand over the reigns of TOS governance to private individuals with the hope those individuals won't damage the SL or LL reputation... or get them into legal troubles.
But until I see a press release / official announcement from Linden Labs that their business model and focus for SecondLife is shifting... I will continue to avoid worrying over conjecture and rumor. No sense in getting the pitchforks and torches until you know it's a monster in the courtyard... might just be some of the neighbors kids playing on your fears. but you are worrying over conjecture and rumor... or at least commenting on it... the first post of this thread was saying how ll is moving towards private island ownership. From: someone I have yet to see a web hosting company that didn't have a TOS and the legal obligation to ensure illegal content isn't hosted on their servers. everyone has a terms of service. but the legal obligation to ensure illegal content isn't hosted on their servers isn't the same as needing to patrol for illegal activity, mediate user disputes, solve social issues, resolve shared resource problems, etc... |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-16-2006 09:24
From: StoneSelf Karuna but you are worrying over conjecture and rumor... or at least commenting on it... Commenting about it? Why yes... I was. In fact... I was commenting that you shouldn't start worrying over something that is simply conjecture and rumor. I mean... really... they make 2 changes to improve the way something they already do is done... and everyone starts to think the sky is falling. I'm still waiting to see the first piece hit the ground. From: StoneSelf Karuna the first post of this thread was saying how ll is moving towards private island ownership.
everyone has a terms of service. but the legal obligation to ensure illegal content isn't hosted on their servers isn't the same as needing to patrol for illegal activity, mediate user disputes, solve social issues, resolve shared resource problems, etc... The fact that Linded Labs has offered land for sale at all is an indication that they have been in favor of private land ownership. Where's the change? Are you surprised by that? As for the point regarding TOS... I agree with you. Those two things are not the same. I was merely pointing out that at the very minimum... offering privatized servers will open a realm of potential issues... some legal, others reputational... for Linden Labs and SL. If this is going to turn into an argument, I would rather just kill this now. I personally see no benefit to forum-post pissing matches. It's just another form of griefing.
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Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com
Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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03-16-2006 10:12
I'm torn on this.
While I realize these things must be done in the interest of de-centralization, and to move SL towards the metaverse/web 3.D/other buzzword, I really like the mainland and have been feeling like we get the shaft a lot of the time. The oldest sims ground textures are hideous, look like total crap, yet can't be changed. We can't even change the height at which the different textures appear! Why not? That would kill a LOT of grass prim lawns. Argh.
We don't have the group or zoning tools we need to keep mainland communities looking nice without a lot of effort and busy work which should be able to be automated. This is one thing Prokofy is right about. Currently, a lot of us do it as a labor of love; off the top of my head, I can name Taber, Luskwood, Indigo, Slate, Boardman and Brown as good examples or resident-driven, themed, stable communities. It does seem to be a dying breed on the mainland, however, and this is a shame... SL used to have distinct communities throughout the mainland.
These days, it seems kind of like a huge ghetto with no rhyme or reason, or 12 private islands were sim, all waterfront, looking exactly the same.
Bring back Little Tokyo!
Regards,
-Flip
_____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
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Kurshie Muromachi
Primtastic!
Join date: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 278
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03-16-2006 10:13
From: Siggy Romulus I bet that 1.10.0 comes after 1.9 LOL April Fools is on its way  |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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03-16-2006 10:23
From: Burnman Bedlam
If this is going to turn into an argument, I would rather just kill this now. I personally see no benefit to forum-post pissing matches. It's just another form of griefing.
<3 Burnman.
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"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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03-16-2006 10:31
From: FlipperPA Peregrine I'm torn on this.
While I realize these things must be done in the interest of de-centralization, and to move SL towards the metaverse/web 3.D/other buzzword, I really like the mainland and have been feeling like we get the shaft a lot of the time. The oldest sims ground textures are hideous, look like total crap, yet can't be changed. We can't even change the height at which the different textures appear! Why not? That would kill a LOT of grass prim lawns. Argh.
We don't have the group or zoning tools we need to keep mainland communities looking nice without a lot of effort and busy work which should be able to be automated. This is one thing Prokofy is right about. Currently, a lot of us do it as a labor of love; off the top of my head, I can name Taber, Luskwood, Indigo, Slate, Boardman and Brown as good examples or resident-driven, themed, stable communities. It does seem to be a dying breed on the mainland, however, and this is a shame... SL used to have distinct communities throughout the mainland.
These days, it seems kind of like a huge ghetto with no rhyme or reason, or 12 private islands were sim, all waterfront, looking exactly the same.
Bring back Little Tokyo!
Regards,
-Flip This is exactly how I feel too Flip. There are still a lot of people who love their mainland sims, who enjoy being part of a continent instead of on their own little servers out in the middle of nowhere (private islands). It's an online game, I want to have fly-bys and meet new people and bump into old neighbours. I love looking across my land in Deharo and seeing Juro's massive castle in the background in Stillman or Hiro's Shop in Varney. Some of us still value the idea of community and originality in Second life and I feel as if that has been put on the back burner, possibly forever. I hope it's not. |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-16-2006 10:35
I would be willing to hazard a guess that LL has been concentrating on the private islands for some time now to increase the overall profitability of SecondLife. With the new automation tools they have implemented, I am hoping that will allow them some time to get back to their roots and give the mainland some love. I guess the key to all of this is feedback from us. Respectful, well thought out feedback, including suggestions for improvements.
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Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com
Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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03-16-2006 10:40
My number one suggestion for improving the overall "look" or the land on the mainland would be to allow us to choose what height the textures in the sim appear at on a per-plot basis instead of the default.
Overall, privacy controls; only the private islands current have any kind of decent privacy.
Regards,
-Flip
_____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
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Jim Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 474
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03-16-2006 10:43
From: Vivianne Draper Well lets see.... support people who pay nothing or 10 dollars a month....
or support people who gave you 1250 for virtual land and pay 125 a month.
YOU do the math. Just sounds like a good business decision to me. I find this a little unclear, perhaps someone can help me understand it. Is this suggesting that there is noone on the mainland except those with free accounts or those paying $10? |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-16-2006 10:45
From: FlipperPA Peregrine My number one suggestion for improving the overall "look" or the land on the mainland would be to allow us to choose what height the textures in the sim appear at on a per-plot basis instead of the default.
Overall, privacy controls; only the private islands current have any kind of decent privacy.
Regards,
-Flip Yeah... the big one for me is the privacy issue. I would love to have the option of logging in with an "invisible" setting... you can see me if you are near me... but no one gets notifications that I am online... and IM's behave as they would if I were offline. I rarely get a chance to build or script in peace since I started DJ'ing... lol I would also *love* to see prims stop cameras from passing through them if the viewer is not the owner of the prims. Walls are meant to be walls.
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Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com
Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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03-16-2006 10:54
Whereas, I used to be a sim/island owner myself in the past, being one, actually doesn't seem to cut the mustard when trying to get a point across to LL. They still just seem to go at their own course, whether or not you own more land than another.
I only own my 4096m and I suppose Im content with it. Even though there's not much one can do with it, but, having your own island/sim is all fine and dandy and all but, at this stage, I still say its still too early to even consider putting that much of investment into SL. Before I even re consider doing more with land, there needs to be a lot more changes, flexibility and openess. Right now though, the vast majority of people live on the mainland whereas the few 'priviledged' people are able to own islands.
I really think owning islands is a little more hype than it is gratifying.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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03-16-2006 11:00
From: Burnman Bedlam Yeah... the big one for me is the privacy issue. I would love to have the option of logging in with an "invisible" setting... you can see me if you are near me... but no one gets notifications that I am online... and IM's behave as they would if I were offline. I rarely get a chance to build or script in peace since I started DJ'ing... lol
Here's a little something I put together I hope can be brought into play with or without jabber, but soon. SL's quickly becoming unusable for me for anything *but* business. I've always liked to use it for both business and pleasure: http://secondslog.blogspot.com/2006/02/formal-proposal-revamping-second-life.htmlRegards, -Flip
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Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-16-2006 11:06
Excellent proposal! I need to reread it when I get home from work, but it looks like just what I need, that's for sure! I've been thinking about creating an alt strictly for *leave me alone* time... but I like my av, and strangely, I would feel odd not being *me* while in-world. I think it has to do with the idea that I shouldn't have to go through all the trouble of an alt to be able to explore/build/script.
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Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com
Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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03-16-2006 11:14
I have a bunch of alts for various purposes, but again, they're just not the virtual me. Thanks for taking the time to read it; the privacy controls haven't changed much since 1.0, when there were maybe 200 or 300 people on at a time. Now we're up to 20 times as many as that, and they're simply ineffective.
It enrages me everytime I hear someone say, "Get an alt!" as a possible solution. There are so many reasons why this is nonsense: (1) when I first heard it, it cost $10 per alt minimum, (2) no-transfer items, (3) builders / scripters have large libraries of standard code/items/textures they use, and so forth.
Regards,
-Flip
_____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-16-2006 22:20
From: Burnman Bedlam Commenting about it? Why yes... I was. In fact... I was commenting that you shouldn't start worrying over something that is simply conjecture and rumor. I mean... really... they make 2 changes to improve the way something they already do is done... and everyone starts to think the sky is falling. I'm still waiting to see the first piece hit the ground. why worry about other people worrying? From: someone The fact that Linded Labs has offered land for sale at all is an indication that they have been in favor of private land ownership. Where's the change? Are you surprised by that? not particularly. only pointing out that you seem to have missed the point of what the op was saying. From: someone As for the point regarding TOS... I agree with you. Those two things are not the same. I was merely pointing out that at the very minimum... offering privatized servers will open a realm of potential issues... some legal, others reputational... for Linden Labs and SL. i suspect ll and sl are already open to many issues that people say the tos protects ll and sl from. and the more lawyers i talk to... the more i think it. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-16-2006 22:23
From: Vivianne Draper Well lets see.... support people who pay nothing or 10 dollars a month....
or support people who gave you 1250 for virtual land and pay 125 a month.
YOU do the math. Just sounds like a good business decision to me. Wanna trade tier? I'll throw in some adult diapers free.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-16-2006 22:28
From: George Flan
As for this comment: What about those who put hundreds or thousands of dollars into content and land on the mainland...they are lower class residents now....who made the island holders first class citizens. We on the main land needs attention as well, we are spending big bucks too.
It's actually a very ignorant comment too. The cost of owning a mainland sim of land and an island sim of land is identical in monthly payments. You pay a 'setup fee' that (supposedly) accounts for the cost of the server. Differences: your island fee doesn't count as 'tier' as each account can only hold 1 mainland sim worth of land. And of course you get all the nifty tools and no neighbours. I think the same land tools (where possible) should be available to all.. but thats just me I guess. In some cases the Mainland users and the Island OWNERS (not necessarily the USERS) are playing the same monthly bill.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Trotsky Prunes
Registered User
Join date: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
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Discover magazine
03-17-2006 08:19
From: nimrod Yaffle <3 Burnman. Nim, you're in Discover magazine for being exiled to cornville. Perhaps old news, but I'm a newbie and can get away with redundancies. |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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03-17-2006 08:21
From: Trotsky Prunes Nim, you're in Discover magazine for being exiled to cornville. Perhaps old news, but I'm a newbie and can get away with redundancies. Hey!! DOn't discourage people from givin me love!!
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Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com
Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
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