The Ban Forest

Actually, they aren't (I use eject). Feel free to prove me wrong.

Do you honestly not understand the difference between federally regulated banking records and data regulated only by a dotcom TOS?

Is it the flavor?

Zero or six seconds is the same to me. I would rather see ban lines than get your 6 second message! They distrub my wa! Ban lines let you avoid the problem.

I want to see the banniest, most blockaded area in SL, with the most and tallest ban lines.

Where should I go?

That a very good guess and I see where you're coming from, but no, it's not the flavour.

Meh! "security" devices are nothing more than griefer tools. Only griefers use them when they aren't present, and anyone who does so is a griefer. People don't "own land" in SL since there is no land, there are pixels. Property (as has been mentioned before) is "sold" in square metres, a measurement of area, not volume... and the sky over your parcel is not yours over about 120m or so (not sure of the exact height) above which no-build and no-script stop working (or at least did, they may have changed that now).

If you want to have private areas in the sky, persuade LL to sell volume, not area, and then stack parcels vertically too...

Of course it's not the flavour... duh! It's the smell.

Actually, security devices are allowed and are not considered "griefing tools" by LL unless they have no warning/delay before removing someone from a parcel.

Your argument that one does not "own" land is irrelevant to the fact people are allowed to restrict access to the parcels... and the airspace above them... so long as proper warning is given above the traditional ban lines.

And the "security devices are allowed" is a recent change too... however, allowed or otherwise, it's still griefing.

The "security devices are allowed" deal has been in place at least since I signed about 6 months ago.

If it is allowed... it's not griefing. As for my properties... getting banned/bounced will only happen if you are causing issues with me, my clients, or my associates.

As for other people... they pay for the right to place em. Do you contribute to their tier? No? Didn't think so.

Like I said, recent... Do you think six months lets you know the whole history of SL? The arrogance!!!

And now they allow, no encourage discrimination ... which is not only griefing, but illegal.

It's none of your, nor anyone else's business who's tier I contribute to or otherwise.

First, I would like to thank you for providing me with a chuckle. I needed that.



I never implied that it did. I simply stated that since I have been in SL, security systems have been allowed. Not sure where you pulled the "whole history of SL" from. Arrogance? hehehe



Uh... what the hell are you talking about?



My point was, if you aren't helping someone pay for their land usage fees, don't complain that they haven't configured their land to your liking. The arrogance!!!

Fortunately, most disagree with you on this.

I don't use such a device on my property, because I'm seldom actually there. But I have flown over parcels and overheard people talking about things or doing things (complete with sound effects) that I'd just as soon not have overheard.

I've also been bounced out of airspace over parcels with no warning at all, and while it's a nuisance, and I have to go retrieve my aircraft afterwards, I don't consider it griefing. It's their parcel, and they have the right to decide who's occupying that space.

Whether the land owner uses Linden-provided tools to do this or scripted ones doesn't even come into it.

In real life, are you being "griefed" by not being allowed to enter a store through the window? Or being stopped from putting a ladder up on somebody's roof and going up for a look round?

Hmmm sorry, dont agree with you on this..... In real terms no one "OWNS" the land in SL apart from LL. You pay a "purchase" price but you also pay rental to LL (or Anshe or someone else) in the form of "tier". If you stop paying the tier, guess what, they take the land back. Its not yours its theirs.

What you "own" is the right to use that land for your own stuff. I would completely support the idea of locking people out of your property and stopping them from seeing in etc if that was implimented in SL . However it isnt. If you own some land in RL - do you own the air above it? no. Why should we expect to have a greater amount of privacy in SL than we get in RL.

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Timmins

Actually, if you stop paying your property taxes in RL, they will seize your land there too. Not so different, really.

Removing people from your land *IS* implimented in SL. That's why the security scripts work. They are not a hack, there are LSL functions specifically for removing people from your land.

It's perfectly legit, and I fully support it. If you don't want to ban someone from the area YOU pay tier for, that's your deal.

Again... just my personal opinion... but no.. that isnt your right. Nowhere in the TOS does LL say that you have exclusive rights to look at your stuff. In fact they have provided tools for others to look at your stuff even when your property is locked down.

Dont get me wrong... Im not saying that it SHOULDN'T be your right, but we a using a program that has been developed by a company to perform a task. Its not yours, mine, or anyone else's RIGHT to have a feature that is not implimented. We can ask for it, beg for it, petition for it, but until its implimented and we are told its part of the service then we have no RIGHT for it.

Personally - I would love to see the ability to lock down areas (not parcels) and make them not able to be seen - or at least not able to see INSIDE a building etc. There would be no need to access lists as anyone what wanted to only allow certain people in (including cameras) would be able to allow access to them. For others, they wouldnt be able to get in and would not be able to see in either. In THESE cases I would be completely happy to say that you have the RIGHT to privcay (would also need to be able to select where people can hear you to etc.

In short there are features that SL would be better with. Features that would make real privacy without stopping other peoples enjoyment of SL but stopping them flying around for example. I would love to see these, but currently they arent there :/

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Timmins

No, but I am being griefed if I'm driving past, or flying over on an airliner and the owner of a house I hadn't even noticed claims the right to shoot the plane down, or disable my vehicle and push me out of the street...

There have been many times when I've taken the slow scenic rout across SL in a vehicle to be approaching my friends property and happen to pass near one of their neighbours skyboxes as I descend... only to find myself teleported home sans vehicle ... and when I try to get the vehicle back... teleported home again...

So yeah, it's griefing. If the owner is there, then the owner can see whether the "intruder" is spying or just passing a bit closer than ideal... if the owner relies on a script to decide, it's griefing!

Just my thoughts exactly.. Until this is implimented then there is no point (in my opinion) in talking about RIGHTS to have stuff private

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Timmins

If you weren't given a warning by the script before being TP'd home, it is griefing. Otherwise, you disregarded a request to leave property you were not authorized to to occupy, and were thus poinked from it.

Not true....... I think that whitelist lines whould be only on when the owner is online (blacklists are a different thing and I have no problem with them being on all the time... If someone has acted like a prat then they deserve any inconvenience they get).

However I am not a griefer - never have been and never will be. Also I HAVE had my share of people griefing me - orbiting me or just refusing to leave my property etc etc. So I do see it from the side of someone who has suffered these things.

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Timmins

Goodgood. For all I care, explicit bans can go up to the point where anything going higher would cause an overflow on the sim, as long as "whitelist" bans are reasonable. (Somewhere below the unaided hover hight)

Half those "warnings" are set to a half a second - you CAN'T leave in time.

Even if given a warning, it needs to be long enough to be able to do something about it. A 5 second warning from seemingly nowhere (as in no structures near to judge by, or structures equidistant in all directions) is worse than useless since you can't leave. Anyway... a request to leave airspace is customarily answered and you just overfly... generally, it isn't followed 5 seconds later by a nuke. Basically Burnman, you're acting like a child with this arguement.

In any case... I've had my say, and you know how I feel. I'm leaving this thread alone now, at least until someone says something more interesting than this crap.

Actually, if you own land in RL, you DO own the air above it, as far up as you want to go. You also own the ground below it, as far down as you wish to dig. There are usually civil and federal regulations on the kinds of things you're allowed to do with it, and there is an altitude limit beyond which your rights give way to the rights of commercial and military aircraft, but it's your volume of space. You're not just buying the grass and the building when you buy land. You own the entire volume of space it represents.