Censorship in Robin Linden's Blog Replies
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Hok Wakawaka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2006
Posts: 371
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08-11-2006 10:15
From: Aodhan McDunnough Speculation here: If I were a mod for that blog... [1] Speculating as to the reason for forum closure. Also veiled accusation [2] Not unheard of. As it was pointed out, there was a period Everquest forums were removed. [3] Accusation [4] A threat You didn't need any of the above to make your point. Rephrase in positive terms. Even negatives can be phrased positively. Aohdan: Under your standards It is unlikely that any negative or critical post would ever be allowed.
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Hok Wakawaka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2006
Posts: 371
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08-11-2006 10:16
From: Aodhan McDunnough My take (speculation): [1] Unnecessary attack. The rest of the post is powerful enough as it stands. You don't need to attack. Hey cut the crap. What forum did u moderate NAZI'S OnlIne?
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 10:17
From: Hok Wakawaka Aohdan: Under your standards It is unlikely that any negative or critical post would ever be allowed. False. It's all in the WAY it's said. I want the forums to stay and so do you. The last thing you should be doing is attacking. It's unnecessary and furthermore it does not advance the cause one bit.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-11-2006 10:17
From: Aodhan McDunnough My take (speculation): [1] Unnecessary attack. The rest of the post is powerful enough as it stands. You don't need to attack. Have you read Brace's post? No? Get back to me. Don't believe your lyin' eyes!
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 10:21
From: Io Zeno Have you read Brace's post? No? Get back to me. Don't believe your lyin' eyes! I'm only speculating at the possible causes why a particular post won't get approved, viewing it as a mod would. Consider the possibility that different mods are working the blog. I don't like the situation any more than you do. Attacking me is not helping one bit and I hope you realize that. My post was approved.
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Hok Wakawaka
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2006
Posts: 371
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08-11-2006 10:26
Aodhan:
No one is attacking you. The criticsm is of the standards that you say were imposed by the forum of the MMORPG that you moderated.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 10:28
From: Hok Wakawaka Aodhan: No one is attacking you. The criticsm is of the standards that you say were imposed by the forium of the MMORPG that you moderated. Not quite. I do public speaking and there are many technicalities in language we watch out for. I applied these to moderating, always encouraging people to say even the negatives in a constructive way. You guys are wondering why your posts aren't approved, all I'm doing here is offering possible insights that you can use to make a better post. You can take them and use them if you wish. I apply them whenever I post to the Lindens.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-11-2006 10:29
I made a positive and completely friendly post just now to Torley's thread for her tutorial on how to use a Blog. Her tutorial said nothing about havig to register to make replies. It did say it's possible to 'log in', but when I found the micro-type login link, it's not accessible to me. Apparently that is a "Linden only" function.
My two-sentance, non-inflammatory post to Torley's blog is also 'awaiting moderation'.
*sigh*
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Summer Carmichael
UNVERIFIED REGISTERED
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 326
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08-11-2006 10:30
From: Ceera Murakami I made a positive and completely friendly post just now to Torley's thread for her tutorial on how to use a Blog. Her tutorial said nothing about havig to register to make replies. It did say it's possible to 'log in', but when I found the micro-type login link, it's not accessible to me. Apparently that is a "Linden only" function. My two-sentance, non-inflammatory post to Torley's blog is also 'awaiting moderation'. *sigh* Did you check under the community link?
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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08-11-2006 10:31
I'd simply chalk it up to unpredictability of blog moderator.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 10:34
From: Ceera Murakami I made a positive and completely friendly post just now to Torley's thread for her tutorial on how to use a Blog. Her tutorial said nothing about havig to register to make replies. It did say it's possible to 'log in', but when I found the micro-type login link, it's not accessible to me. Apparently that is a "Linden only" function. My two-sentance, non-inflammatory post to Torley's blog is also 'awaiting moderation'. *sigh* *sigh* is right. It's really hard not knowing what's going on. My post took several hours to appear. Can't really say why some posts go through and some don't. The techniques I mentioned only reduce the chances of rejection. We don't know who's modding or when they mod. My advice is keep the professional and friendly tone (even in the strongest of posts) and sit back. In the meantime maybe we should devote energies to furnishing the new homes on sluniverse and secondcitizen.
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Io Zeno
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Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-11-2006 10:34
From: Aodhan McDunnough I'm only speculating at the possible causes why a post won't get approved, viewing it as a mod would. Consider the possibility that different mods are working the blog. I don't like the situation any more than you do. Attacking me is not helping one bit and I hope you realize that. My post was approved. I'm hardly attacking you personally, and if I did it was your continued insistance that any post which hasn't gotten moderation must not have met some mysterious blog-worthy criteria, which no one could fathom given the wide range of tone and content in the posts already there. It doesn't make any sense and there is no reason to argue with people otherwise unless you can provide some evidence that it does, other than thinking up something that is quickly contradicted by the posts already there. That isn't really helpful, if that is your intent. In fact you have already accused some of us as "attacking" while I have given you posts that were far more hostile. And if figuring out what is acceptable to say on a Linden blog is this difficult and mysterious, then any attempt at communication really is pointless. Personally, I don't think it is censorship or posting something the "wrong way" simply because there are posts that are far more critical, personal and hostile than mine or others which were not posted.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 10:38
From: Io Zeno [1] In fact you have already accused some of us as "attacking" while I have given you posts that were far more hostile. [2] And if figuring out what is acceptable to say on a Linden blog is this difficult and mysterious, then any attempt at communication really is pointless. [3] Personally, I don't think it is censorship or posting something the "wrong way" simply because there are posts that are far more critical, personal and hostile than mine or others which were not posted. [1] Apologies for not being clear about this. But when I mention attacks, I'm not comparing it to other posts. I look only at the specific post. The others did have attacks too, and I never said otherwise. But I always advise removing them because they never work. [2] Same goes for any moderated message medium. The points I outlined are means of reducing chances of rejection. [3] With too many factors in play, we're all guessing. Now are they singling people like you, Ceera and Hok? I can't eliminate that possibility. The stand I take is to never give them a reason to single you out.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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08-11-2006 11:04
mine didn't make it.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 11:10
A crazy thought just hit me. Would you guys who have unapproved posts mind checking if anyone said the same thing you did substantially? I'm toying with the possibility that posts might not be approved on grounds of extreme redundancy.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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08-11-2006 11:11
From: Feral Mill I guess there is a difference between “moderated” and “censoring dissent”. Mine have also been kept out. ~Ulrika~
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Shinesse Madison
Resident Lurker
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 58
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08-11-2006 11:24
I use wordpress (which is what they are using for the SL blog) for my blog and here are the comment options you get to choose. From: someone Before a comment appears: An administrator must approve the comment (regardless of any matches below) Comment author must fill out name and e-mail Comment author must have a previously approved comment
Comment Moderation Hold a comment in the queue if it contains more than links. (A common characteristic of comment spam is a large number of hyperlinks.)
When a comment contains any of these words in its content, name, URI, e-mail, or IP, hold it in the moderation queue: (Separate multiple words with new lines.)
Comment Blacklist This is a list of words that you want completely blacklisted from your blog. Be very careful what you add here, because if a comment matches something here it will be completely nuked and there will be no notification. Remember that partial words can match, so if there is any chance something here might match it would be better to put it in the moderation box above.
This is taken directly from my wordpress dashboard. I think they have the option "Comment author must have a previously approved comment" checked. Also if they have put any words in the comment blacklist then your post doesn't even show up for them to approve or deny. The combination of both of these things would make it appear that heavy moderation is being done when its really just weird option settings.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 11:28
From: Shinesse Madison This is taken directly from my wordpress dashboard. I think they have the option "Comment author must have a previously approved comment" checked. Also if they have put any words in the comment blacklist then your post doesn't even show up for them to approve or deny. The combination of both of these things would make it appear that heavy moderation is being done when its really just weird option settings. Except for the words blacklist (for profanity) I do hope they're not doing what you're saying. SLifer comments are too complex to not merit manual moderation. I doubt the "comment author ... " part. My post appears and it's my first ever post on their blog. Then again, someone might have switched it on at a different time.
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Charlene Trudeau
SkyBeam Architect
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 318
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08-11-2006 11:37
You know, no comments appear to have come through since 8:32am. Could it be that it hit a snag of some sort and is now piling up *all* responses as awaiting moderation... just sort of giving the moderation msg on the order of erroneously?
Char
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Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
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08-11-2006 11:40
From: Aodhan McDunnough There must be some pattern to the posts that were not approved. Don't look only at content, look at the way they were written also. Modding is not always about content. Check for tone of speculative accusation. When I was modding before (other MMOG) that type is the second most common reason for mod action. The first being flaming and foul language. A begging tone is not a good idea either. Reality: The reason for moderation doesn't matter. Any method of "public" communication where replies must be screened by a biased party before being displayed is an untrusted and untrustworthy source. Now that I know blog comments are prescreened I know the blog is irrelevent. It presents only the image LL wants it to present.
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Androclese Torgeson
I've got nothin'
Join date: 11 May 2004
Posts: 144
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08-11-2006 11:45
From: Feral Mill Why are all of Ceera Murakami’s replies being kept out of Robin Linden's blog? (Mine too, for that matter.) She has tried replying to Robin's blog about the forum closures three times, and all are “awaiting moderation”, even though replies to this blog are supposedly no longer being moderated? Even though well over 30 other replies from other folks, made many hours after hers, have been posted for public access? Even though her posts are less critical and inflammatory than some of what HAS been approved??? I guess there is a difference between “moderated” and “censoring dissent”. Lets be frank about why they are doing it. They are gutless cowards who cannot stand the heat. That is why they are making the Forums go away; so they can claim they never officially heard out complaints. I'm about *this* close to following Starax out the egress.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-11-2006 11:56
From: Summer Carmichael Did you check under the community link? Could you be a little more clear on that Summer? The Community link on the SL Blogs site takes me back to the SL Main Website, which I am logged into and which I have been an active participant in since last September, when I joined SL. What, precisely, should I find there related to the ability to post replies to the Blogs? It appears at this point that the Lindens are picking and choosing who may reply and who may not, based on standards that I can only guess at. All I can say for sure is that if this is an example of how well we will be able to communicate with Linden Labs in the future, I am apalled.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Shinesse Madison
Resident Lurker
Join date: 5 Jul 2004
Posts: 58
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08-11-2006 12:06
I could be wrong but I have wordpress 2.0.4 and you don't need to register in order to post to my blog. I can't remember having to ever let people register to post to my blog and I've been using wordpress for a little over a year now. I just think someone clicked the wrong comment options and its causing some stuff to post and not others. I could be wrong. 
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-11-2006 12:18
I'm on wordpress. Registration can be set to on or off. I posted without registration.
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-11-2006 12:25
Here's what I posted, and it's still 'awaiting moderation' almost 24 hours later. I didn't think my comments were as terrible or inflammatory as all that, but apparently I was wrong. From: someone Ilianexsi Sojourner Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. August 10th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Well. Way to go… hot on the heels of one unpopular decision - open registration - comes this, which is already shaping up to be another really unpopular decision. I guess everyone at LL got tired of having to listen to our opinions. Obvious solution: silence us altogether!
So, now if we want to give any feedback, we’ll have to use the Official Company Blog, which doesn’t allow for open discussion and debate. Someone in the forum quoted The Prisoner: ‘Questions are a burden to others; answers, a prison for oneself.’ That’s sounding more and more like it could be LL’s position on having forums.
I would hope the classifieds at least could be allowed to remain; they provide a lot of visibility for new designers, and are a valuable service and a really helpful resource for the rest of us. In world classifieds are not a replacement; they cost money, which puts them out of the reach of new residents, and they’re spotty at best in terms of benefit.
I’m sorry, but saying ‘dialogue, we love it’ is really laughable in light of this. It’s a bad move, and in the end it won’t help to heal the widespread bad feelings that have been growing lately. I’m really disappointed by this decision. I'm thinking seriously of making a freebie T-shirt that says 'Awaiting Moderation.' Whattya think? Anybody interested?
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