Put Linden-only content in InfoNets at InfoHubs

You mean, people could visit Dell.com? Or, would it be OK for Dell to affect their browsing in other ways? Bear in mind that Dell have been paid for the computers.

If it's "nothing to do with journalism" then that's already worrying. It means that the ability to be heard - for all the "free press" business people are talking about - isn't actually free, nor is it even governed by what you're saying, but is governed by your ability to build and script stuff. That doesn't make sense.

It's not a straight comparison. InfoNet isn't just the machine, it's the service. So, yeah dell would put crap in their search/info service within the machine interface ala AOL, Yahoo, etc.

But that gets back to the point of "did LL choose InfoNet because of the content of the service or the nature of the scripted access to the service?"

After all, there's no reason why LL couldn't have redirected their InfoNet clients to a different master server, rezzed up their own server farm (or web server - I'm not sure if InfoNet uses in-game e-mail or XML-RPC returns) and put their own content in it, or invited people in general to put their content in it, or picked a journalistic content provider like M2 or Herald to supply the content side.

That is not safe to assume, as concerns me.

It is reasonable to list all publications in one sandwich board that says "Newspapers," assuming basically anything (aside from, say, sites that tell you how to attack the grid), would be accepted for listing.

Because that will look like a reading rack, no one will think Lindens endorse everything in it.

It is not reasonable to take one information service and give it prominent, privileged status in the welcome areas and Infohubs. It is further unreasonable to use it and it alone as the official conduit for Linden news.

coco

If I'm not mistaken, what you mean is "anyone can have their business/organization listed" in your directory listings FOR A FEE, payable to you, one SL resident. (Or your group.)

No individual resident or business should be able to hold hostage an important Linden conduit and profit from it.

In addition, no individual business should be able to state their picks of the Best of SL, and have it visually subsumed under "Linden Information," while others cannot, regardless of any Linden disclaimer.

I really don't care what Infonet does - reselling products, giving the proceeds to those businesses they think are worthy, selling classified listings, selecting and running articles, including Tourbus from Hell - or whatever they like. In fact, what Infonet does isn't the issue. They can do whatever they like - on private property.

Being given prominent display on Linden Lands - under the words, "Linden Information," no less - is wrong.

Being listed with other services/newspapers, on a sandwich board, where all are treated equal, would be no problem.

coco

Indeed. I would examine Anshe's comments through the lens of recognizing that she
is understandably upset and using that pathos in her statements. However, the previous topic of who is and who isn't a public figure comes in to play here. Is Anshe being considered a public figure, and is that why the InfoNet is featuring her spot as still on the Tourbus to Hell after other spots were removed? Interesting discussion. Nonetheless this tripe, defamation posing as editorial, should be removed to make way for valid methods of giving people information that is actually worthwhile. Maybe a coupon page? Entertainment listing that isn't commercial? Interviews with SL Celebrities? I'd prefer these types of endeavours a thousand times over mudslinging.

Well from my perpsective I am not against this. If a resident publication is alloted independent vendors, and pays rent in some for to LL, or if LL opens free spaces at the infohubs and WA for distribution of publications, then I have no problem.

However, the infohubs as they are, are sponsored by the lindens, and are intented to infrastruction for second life. My understanding is that they are to be stop gaps until better search features can be put into find, at least thats the way robin puts it on her blog. Thus the information at the infohubs is meant to be official.

Yes You can add disclaimers and rely on the reasonable understanding of everyone who speaks english to know that infohub content is not necessarily endorsed by the lindens. If discalimers worked, our society would be a hell of a lot less litigous. But you cannot "unring the bell" when someone is placed on the "worst" list by another player. Its like a return to neg-rating. God can you imagine how packed the system will be withevery worst rating each other for every petty little offense? Even the "best" system will have the same problem.

That aside, I would want to use the telehub to find places, not to sort though endless player reviews. If you want to write rivews of SL places, products, or services-doi itn a newspaper, or in the forums, or publish your own hate book. There is no reason for LL to susbsidize sladering anshe chung in an "official news service."

man who really cares what is in the infohubs? I mean some people wanna sit hear and talk about rights well what about the freedom of speech? yeah i'm sure that all the things that are in the infohubs fall into that right. so quit whinning and bitching and get over it!

ok whatever is on those signs fall under the feedom of speech so get over it and quit whinning!

LL is doing exactly that, and has planned to from the beginning. It's part and parcel of the repurposing of the hubs. They've already put out the offer before this controversy started and no one has taken them up on it. If infonet is subject to censorship due to proximity to official LL information, then so too should any publication distributed at the hubs, yet people seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.



I hear a lot of people making variations on this argument. It's the "everyone else is dumber than I am" argument. Sure, I understand disclaimers, but what about all those stupid people?



All of that last part I agree with, except the last sentence. It's a reverse of the everyone else is dumber than I am argument. It's the "I know I said that people can read disclaimers but now even I'm confused about what it means" argument. It's not an official LL news service, as you well know. It's official LL news being distributed on a third party system, just like whatever other content from others is being distributed the same way. We all know that already so all of this debate is based on assumptions about what other people will think. It's disingenuous.

I really dislike worst of lists (and best of lists for that matter). But must everything be regulated? If a publication routinely puts out material that a lot of people are offended by, won't people stop reading it? Will the creators keep on creating it just to hear themselves talk? Personally I'd rather make the choice of what I read or don't read myself, and the freer the press, the greater my options. Many times I've been apalled at things in the Herald, but I don't for a moment think they shouldn't be allowed to print it unless they break an actual law. I just don't read it anymore. AFAIK this worst of list is not a violation of the TOS and if it were, we'd be well on our way down the road to banning all critical speech.

Infonet doesn't "have proximity" to Linden information. It is not next to Linden information. It IS Linden information. The display that says "Linden Information" is nothing more than Infonet.

The Newspapers listed on the Newspapers sandwich board are in proximity to Linden Information. Anybody can put their newspaper there, and nobody would expect the Lindens to be held accountable for every bit of info in each and every newspaper.

You cannot access the Linden Information without accessing Infonet, without going through Infonet. Infonet IS the sandwich board on which official Linden information resides.

This has nothing to do with freedom of the press or with free speech. This has to do with everybody being forced to go through Infonet in order to read Linden Information at the welcome areas and the Infohubs.

Would you like it if you had to go through the Second Life Herald in order to read Linden Information at the welcome areas and the Infohubs?

coco

A thought: rather than harp on about InfoNet, why not go and construct something better? Since the Linden's seem to be such gullible fops (in the minds of some) for partnering with InfoNet, surely any half-decent scripter could build a better model, get the Linden's signed up, make a profit, and do it in a way that causes nothing but a rosy glow across the whole of SL?

Duh - because that requires effort and skill and the forums are soooo much easier.

Chip its not that everyone is stupid who reads a disclaimer, its just that once people hear "anshe chung" is a crook, then that soon gets around as common knowledge. Rumors are fed by a lot of factors and people who are other wise intelligent can go of half baked and cite infonet as a source. It seems strange because we ar eall, I think, at our core, reasonable and intelligent beings. But people can and do react without thought, snf react favorably to everything linden.

This is not to say these people are dumb, just that perhaps they don't always give proper thought to what they are reading, and give proper consideration to the source. this is why we have disclaimers, because there is a danger of misinterpretation. If there was no danger to being with, we would not need a disclaimer.

Now in principal I agree with you. In the case of newspapers and such, people read what they want. If I solicit reviews of my product, then I think that I should be prepared for negative press.

However the info hubs are not promixate to official information, they are meant to be a stop gap for infrastructure. Therefore I think they must be viewed in the same light as anything that comes up in the "find" part of the user interface. Admittedly this is a higher standard that I would pin on say the Hearald or the MM. But LL is not the hearald or the MM.

I do not recall the specific langues of the post about anshe but there is a chance that it might actually be libellous. Anshe has very few avenues of recovery. She can obviously respond wwith her own considerable resources, and I think everyon gets that when you are the richest fish in the pond, you have enemies.

But others may not be so able to protect themselves. Again if this is a free standing service, then ther eis much more freedom. But as Linden infrastructure, the worst of and best of lists should not be allowed.

Finally i don't think its a big deal to remove the best of and worst of cards. It sure would spare a lot of ill feeling on the part of morethan one customer. When the search and find functions are impreved and infohubs are not infrastructure they can be put back.

Um because at the monment LL has adopted Infonet and the presence of a better mousetrap is irrelevant if Infonet is already deployed.

And also because that would sort of be defeating the point of LL creating their own and not choosing one resident-run publication over, and in exclusion of, another.

Good comments, Jake. Especially this last bit. I think the best thing that could happen would be for the authors to voluntarily pull the content from circulation or find a different venue for it.

Network effect and scalability.

One of the things that really bothers me about the "open infohubs" claim is the scalability issue. If anyone else makes something like InfoNet, that has a terminal and displays textures on a publically visible site, can that get placed on InfoHubs too? If it can - then what happens if 20 people make them? Does every InfoHub become a "video wall" with 20 active and updating screens, lagging down the whole sim and baffling every visitor with information overload?

In any case, the issue with InfoNet isn't to do with the quality of the scripting - it's not ideal, but it's quite unlikely that the system could be re-scripted in a way that would offer sufficient improvement for the Lindens to want to switch. The issue is with the fact that as well as using the scripts, the Lindens also bought into Infonet's existing content, and they're going to continue to base ability to get placed in the hubs on ability to build and script an object. This is a bit like saying you can only run a newspaper if you can build your own printing press, but that's OK because anyone who builds a good printing press will obviously be good at running a newspaper. In the real world, these are done by different people and different companies, and there's a good reason for that - because the above isn't true.

If the InfoNet terminals in the hubs, or at least the WA, were restricted to only showing the Linden Information sections then I don't think anyone would have a complaint with them using Squagmire's script.