US Congress Discussing Ban on Internet Gambling

I was listening to news and it said this applied only if an USD transaction took place (they were talking about CC's/checks etc). In this cause, would gambling with L$ be something we need to be worried about?

I believe the loophole that LL and SL gets to use is the fact that the L$ or any other content is not redeemable for monetary value directly from Linden Lab.

Is that actually true? If I buy L$, who is charging my credit card? LL is. When I sell L$, who sends the money to my PayPal account? LL does.

1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.

You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right.

5.2 All data on Linden Lab's servers are subject to deletion, alteration or transfer.

When using the Service, you may accumulate Content, Currency, objects, items, scripts, equipment, or other value or status indicators that reside as data on Linden Lab's servers. THESE DATA, AND ANY OTHER DATA, ACCOUNT HISTORY AND ACCOUNT NAMES RESIDING ON LINDEN LAB'S SERVERS, MAY BE DELETED, ALTERED, MOVED OR TRANSFERRED AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON IN LINDEN LAB'S SOLE DISCRETION.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, NOTWITHSTANDING ANY COPYRIGHT OR OTHER RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE WITH RESPECT TO ITEMS YOU CREATE USING THE SERVICE, AND NOTWITHSTANDING ANY VALUE ATTRIBUTED TO SUCH CONTENT OR OTHER DATA BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY, LINDEN LAB DOES NOT PROVIDE OR GUARANTEE, AND EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS (SUBJECT TO ANY UNDERLYING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS IN THE CONTENT), ANY VALUE, CASH OR OTHERWISE, ATTRIBUTED TO ANY DATA RESIDING ON LINDEN LAB'S SERVERS.

YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT LINDEN LAB HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION, TO REMOVE ANY CONTENT (INCLUDING YOUR CONTENT) IN WHOLE OR IN PART AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND.

The real sums of money are insignificant and the method of payment doesn't fit into their real targets in online casinos.

It's stupid and will never happen. How will they deal with companies located in other countries or servers that host the games elsewhere?

Congress wastes a lot of time grandstanding over issues they aren't going to do a damn thing about. In fact that describes Congress pretty acurately on any given day.

The house passed the legislation, but it does not make internet gambling illegal. The WTO has already decided that the United States Congress has no right to make non-U.S.-based internet gambling illegal.

I believe the loophole that LL and SL gets to use is the fact that the L$ or any other content is not redeemable for monetary value directly from Linden Lab.

Read the TOS (http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php):

So, not only do they say that LL will not redeemable it, but that they can change your L$ balance at anytime to anything they want. When you gamble with L$, LL owns the "currency" and when it goes to another user LL still owns it.

It's stupid and will never happen. .

First, this takes on many of the problems that the IRS encounted when they started thinking about taxing people for gains in WoW and other MMORPG games. (The idea didn't go far)

Second, Even if it has value, how would law enforcement go about enforcing the law in SL. LL has enough trouble enforcing rules and an unenforcable law might as well not exist.

Third, Sigh at someone else, It's part of the agreement between you and LL, it's valid to the discussion. So shove it.

First, this takes on many of the problems that the IRS encounted when they started thinking about taxing people for gains in WoW and other MMORPG games. (The idea didn't go far)

Second, Even if it has value, how would law enforcement go about enforcing the law in SL. LL has enough trouble enforcing rules and an unenforcable law might as well not exist.

Third, Sigh at someone else, It's part of the agreement between you and LL, it's valid to the discussion. So shove it.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,71368-0.html?tw=rss.index

Wired magazine reports that Congress passed the bill 317-93

If passed into law this legislation would make payment for online gambling impossible. If the legislators define "gambling" and "payment" broadly enough to encompass third party mechanisms for payment, then this law has the potential to reach online gambling in venues such as we see inside SL.

Supporters of the bill, who include religious and "family values" advocacy groups, say online gambling sites prey on young people and gambling addicts, and that they are often money laundering fronts for organised crime and terrorist groups.
"This legislation provides real protection to American families from destructive and unlawful internet gambling," said Tom McClusky of the Family Research Council, a conservative advocacy group.

Bob Goodlatte, a Hourse Republican sponsor of the bill, blamed online betting for "moral decline". Jon Kyl, a Republican senator, lauded the bill's passage, saying internet gambling was as perniciously addictive as "crack cocaine".

The bill's opponents accuse Republicans of playing to socially conservative and religious voters ahead of the midterm elections in November, and say it would be impossible to enforce the measures without encroaching on civil liberties.

"What kind of socio-cultural authoritarianism are we practicing here?" asked Barney Frank, a Democratic congressman.

A better option, critics say, would be to regulate online gambling, rather than outlawing it. "Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and it won't work for gambling," said Mr Frank.

With few working days left ahead of the November elections, it is unclear whether the Senate, currently muddling through thorny debates on immigration reform and government spending, will address this bill before years' end.

So then doesn't the question for the CC providers become whether Second Life is a "gambling" venue? If I pay $3.62 US for 1000$L and I use, say, $200L of that to gamble but shop with the remainder of it, I've spent $0.97 to gamble (I spend more than that every year in office NCAA tournament pools). I might or might not win any $L with that, but it boils down to the fact that SL is not primarily a gambling venue, doesn't it?

House passes bill (MSNBC)

Second, Even if it has value, how would law enforcement go about enforcing the law in SL.

By kicking down the doors at Linden Labs and seizing all their servers, I imagine.

-Pall

So then doesn't the question for the CC providers become whether Second Life is a "gambling" venue? If I pay $3.62 US for 1000$L and I use, say, $200L of that to gamble but shop with the remainder of it, I've spent $0.97 to gamble (I spend more than that every year in office NCAA tournament pools). I might or might not win any $L with that, but it boils down to the fact that SL is not primarily a gambling venue, doesn't it?

By kicking down the doors at Linden Labs and seizing all their servers, I imagine.

-Pall

If they aren't enforcing laws on prostitution, why are they going to enforce them on gambling? It's the seperation of concept just about that same? Do you think they will try to outlaw prostitution in things like SL once they find out it is happening. . .could they charge someone with sexual tourism if the person they are cybering with is in a different country?

If they aren't enforcing laws on prostitution, why are they going to enforce them on gambling? It's the seperation of concept just about that same? Do you think they will try to outlaw prostitution in things like SL once they find out it is happening. . .could they charge someone with sexual tourism if the person they are cybering with is in a different country?