Darwinian Effect :: Will stopping DI stop Camping Chairs?

HI

What effects if any do popular place list purchases have on LLs bottom line?
blegh I was switched off when I thought this, I guess its next to Zero.

Thanks for weighing in, Moonshine. That kinda goes in line with my theory on the subject.

Difference is, my thoughts are all based on conjecture - and very limited experience being near the bottom of the DI list.

Your ideas appear to be based upon experience.

It is pretty official now that after the first of the year, when the incentives slowly drop to nothing, that the "camping chairs" and "dance pads" will plunge to a quick death. In turn it will also not be profitable to sponsor games, for it will cost money to pay someone to host a game that you make no money off of....so there go the games. Casinos! Who will bother to spend their money in a casino if they do not have a way of making money via "camping chairs" and "dance pads....not everyone has the time or ability to own land or create lavish sex joints and or design sexy bikini's to sell. And who is going to buy all these clothes anyway? Certainly the newbie on a free account with 50L per month sitpend will not be spending money anywhere if they don't have a way of making money.

I have explored SL extensively. It has some very interesting and beautiful sites. However, exploring SL and wandering around islands with few if any people around gets old.

When they stop the games, stop my way of making some spending money with camping chairs or dance pads...I will no longer have enough reason to sign on to SL, except for an occasional look see around to see if anything has changed.

Exactly what is the point of SL? I thought it was for the residents to get creative, find ways to improve their SL experience and create another world so to speak ( camping chairs included). I like that concept...but in reality, it will only be the people who have RL dollars to invest in buying property and or are computer intellects who know how to invent new scripting and design new graphics who will get the most out of SL. Not to mention that they will have to give up the idea of making any profits from their efforts...for who is going to buy their stuff or linger at their sites if they don't have "incentives" to come to their sites? One hand feeds the other in RL and that is the only way it is going to work in SL as well. Newbies and us "free account" residents need more to keep us interested and we need ways to make money to be SL consumers.

In light of all that...I would only pay for an account if I had extra money to throw around and wanted to be a land owner and develop it. However, I do not have the time, money or the know how to do that so people like me will have little to no use for SL any longer.

What is the real incentive to own land? What is the payoff in that? Is it fun to create a nice site? Sure it is...but how long does that last? Do you make money from being a land owner? Perhaps in the past...but will you make money now that you won't be getting the incentive money or have all the "newbies" stopping buy to play your games etc so they can shop in those malls and play all those casino games.

It seems that doing away with the incentive will only push more and more property owners to develop sex sites where by getting people to visit is a piece of cake... Is that what SL will turn into? Now instead of a SL of campers and dancers we will slowly have most of the population signing on to their " Second Sexual Life" accounts.

Did you read Moonshine Herbst's post #25 in this thread before posting? Based on this post by someone who is familiar with being at the #1 spot of the Popular Places list, your butt in a camping chair will still have value come the new year. Keep the faith, Sara!

Sara Steinbeck: read the damn thread first.

I am curious. You support camping chairs and dance pads but then complain why arnt there more people elsewhere. These chairs and pads are nothing but a big ole tit for people to suck L$ out of while stifling their own creativity and contributions to the SL world. Sure they are a part of it but they take away from the spirit of things IMO. And you can argue that people do these while afk or whatever, but that further goes to support my anti-spirit of things comment.

Good question. But the answer is different for each of us and thats fine. But I feel camping chairs are becoming a crutch for some people that I know could add value to SL in other ways. But they'll never realize those ways of making money in SL because they are already hooked on the free feeding.

Very good point and I agree. I just dont like seeing a method of earning $ that kills creativity.

I'd almost argue that most of those malls and casinos exist today because of the welfare payouts from LL in the past. Event money and stipends from the past fed these places. Maybe it is time to cut the welfare to us all down to a much smaller level and let some of these malls and casinos die? Luckily for me its LL job to keep the consumer base happy and not myself.


Maybe we can reach a compromise and have some glory hole chairs?

I hope that LL is smarter than that, and first just tries adjusting the dwell calculations so that attracting zillions of free riders isn't the logical way to gain dwell.

Sara Steinbeck makes a lot of good points. The camping chairs and dance pads have been an important part of the new players' and basic members' experience and way to function, I think. I don't think they are going away, and hopefully there will be new things for the basic or new player to do. But not having things to do (or ways to make money) has always been one of the greatest weaknesses of the game. New players like Sara can't help but notice this right off the bat.

coco

I'm not sure its possible to create a formula for dwell calc that couldn't or wouldn't be abused in the end. As long as there's a big reward for having the highest 'number', there will be a motivation to manipulate whatever formula being used to one's advantage in any creative way possible.

Maybe if we had a biofeedback device that measured dwell in terms of satisfaction of experience, everyone would feel the numbers represented something we could feel comfortable about. Of course, that's unrealistic.

I'm a stats nut - so on the one hand, I love the idea of tracking dwell numbers, because just for personal usage, and knowing I'm not trying to artificially inflate the numbers: they're a great metric for me to use to determine how good a 'day' we had in terms of attendees. I'd cream my jeans if we had an LSL function to pull traffic data.

Its useful information to know that Mondays aren't a historically busy day for my events, for example.

Its also a great way to show potential sponsors: "Hey, see... you'll get a decent amount of exposure by supporting us."

However, the dwell numbers represent more than just a statistic. If your dwell numbers are high enough, it translates into a listing on the Popular Places list - which has a huge advertising impact.

So, maybe the answer isn't neccesarily removing dwell alltogether like I stated in the post you quoted. But at the very least, the competitive nature of it would need to be neutralized in some way to minimize the motivation to make the dwell numbers a venue's primary focus, rather than being simply one of many useful statistics.

One way to do that could be to leave Dwell intact, but remove the popular places list, and remove the dwell calc from Find. Although, I'm not sure that move would be very popular.

LF etc are discouraging the behaviour by exagerrating the effort & requirements it takes to earn, its given me $300 in a month so far. -

See attached screen capture

math: 4 sessions, 700-800 day each, 3000x28 = 84000 = $305.88

Athough I use them in my songs - like I do hootchie hair - I have nothing against 'camping chairs' - the person who rezzes the chair is paying folks to sit in them.
If they are gamed - then the person rezzing them pays out money... no big deal, and no concern of mine whatsoever.

That being look at the end result and you see why DI is going bye bye.

Developers Incentive bonuses are given out for the making of 'compelling content' to encourage people to make new and interesting things.

However the only objective way to determine that is by how many people go there and what percentage of their time is spent there... This has been discussed over and over and over here and responded to by Linden Lab many times (subject of why dwell).

Everything else is subjective. Votings, Opinions, etc.. The fairest way to determine this and quell shouts of 'Starchamber!' and 'FIC' and all that crap was by dwell.

However things like the camping chair - designed to increase your chances of getting that DI check -- they sort of defeat the purpose of it.

A lot of people coming and sitting around in a big box - not really compelling - what the DI was supposed to acheive it's now standing in the way of.

I think the chairs may fade away - maybe not completely - but the purpose of giving out L$ to cash in on that USD check will gone.

$300 a month for 2 sessions?

Lets do the math. I'll be generous and give you $4 USD per 1000 L$. Thats 75,000 L$ you'd have to earn. 2 accounts so thats 37,500 L$ per account (session). That means you need to earn 1210 L$ per day per account or roughly $50L per hour per account.

So people pay 50L$/hour? I did the math on the fly so tell me if Im missing something.

who says I have only 1 computer

Weren't you the one saying:

"LF etc are discouraging the behaviour by exagerrating the effort & requirements"

If you want to clear up his exaggrations then why are you hiding the requirements it took you to make $300?

fair enough it requries ONE or TWO computers, depending on RAM.

How many sessions need to run? Whats the average payout?

It doesn't have to be. All you need is to make it so that abusing it in favor of paying customers is more attractive, and abusing it in favor of free riders is less attractive, so that the Lindens paid out in dwell go to the people who are making Second Life a better place for the people who are paying for Second Life to exist.

4 sessions, 700-800 day each, 3000x28 = 84000 = $305.88

Cool info. So you're getting 29 to 33 L$ per hour per session.

Affirmative.

Maylin...you are a very rude person...

There are hundreds of threads on here with hundreds of post....I don't have to read every post on a thread to post my opinion. If that bothers you then perhaps spending time on this forum is not for you.

If they kill DI people like me who dont have an other income and no BIZ will get nothing I make art for people to look at some times not to sell so the DI is nice.

Then miffed you should be, and righteously so - to encourage making content that was compelling and popular was the reason the DI was instituted - now that content may well go bye bye because someone found a loophole in the system and cut the pursestrings.

omg necroposting.. how rude.