Backdoor in Product - [edited]'s Force Elements

Actually, no they don't. Same laws that set online universes apart from the RL one in some cases create a precedent that permeates into SL. If they label it as "If you pay for this service, all you get is this service, and anything that happens isn't the responsibility of LL as long as you're getting access to the service," then that's exactly what the law will enforce.

I'd like some more details on what this scripted object is meant to do and what the backdoor does before coming to that conclusion.

This backdoor is a command that disables the script in the copy you're wearing. For some reason as well you cannot recompile or reset the scripts in this product. So therefore, if they do it to you, thats 800L down the drain. That IS fraud.

Advertising something that will do something, take money for it, then disable that feature is indeed fraud.

Here's the dictionary meaning of fraud, and you tell me where this back door wouldn't be considered fraud.

fraud ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frôd)
n.
A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
A piece of trickery; a trick.

One that defrauds; a cheat.
One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

Also, keep in mind the legal fiction that the L$ is valueless... you didn't atually pay anything when you bought it, even if you bought L$ from Lindex to buy it.

Actually, your questioin was, was fraud allowable under the ToS.

Hello, Scripter here...

Just so some of you not so programming people know, every single peice of softwear that I know of has some kind of back door. Programs *MUST* have them for debugging purpose. Generaly the majorority of them is taken out in the real world because hackers are a real threat if they find these, and the programmers them selves can be if they ever get an evil streak. The problem we have in SL is that just about every scripter is working for him self. So when he sees he can get a one up on someone he is more likly to take it. I know some of my scripts have backdoors, hell just know how they work gives me some of the biggest back doors without even adding any code. The maker of this product just happened to put in a niftly little trick to mess with people who try to use his own stuff to mess with him. Sorry to say but if your trying to get anyone with fraud on this, you will need to arrest just about any programmer who has worked on anything larger then "Hello, World!!!".

I am not saying that what he his use of it is valid, just that attempting to impose any sort of restiction of use would either A) totaly ruin any script you wanted to use, or B) limit the language to be so narrow the growth of what we can do would be hammpered.

In conclusion, buyer beware. If you buy a vender know that if that programmer wanted to he could rob you blind. If you buy a weapon, it could auto no-attack certain people or even auto attack others.

Note that the Legal Definition of Fraud, and the Dictionary Definition of Fraud are two completely seperate ideas.

Because the $Linden has no value according to Linden Lab's TOS, its questionable that you could actually take binding legal action over a virtual item purchased with virtual currency.

If you are questioning whether this activity is Fraud from a moral perspective, then the answer is a subjective one.

The best thing you can do if you don't like something that doesn't violate the TOS is to no longer do buisness with that person, and advise your friends to do the same.

If you do feel it violates the TOS, file an Abuse Report.

Going beyond that is a monumental waste of pixels and/or oxygen depending on your tenacity.

Well. I have extensive back-doors in any vehicle I program, partly because I rely so much on outside beta testers and its nice to be able to troubleshoot a problem that way. But they can also be turned off with the toggle of a variable in the script, which I normally set before the script goes on sale. In the odd event I forget its no particular problem, since the backdoor only responds to me in any event, and the commands are pretty archaic even if it didn't - But nothing says you HAVE to have backdoors. I'm just saying its a lot more common than a lot of people realize.



I've often said that granting debit permissions to anything that isn't open source or programmed yourself is about the dumbest thing you can do in Second Life.

Could not have said it better my self.



I am sorry, to this I was refering to how some people sugjested that their be some sort of check such as script can not change states with out user permission, not to the fact that debugging modes are evil or the like. I used debugging modes myself in all my scripts, so I would say it is hard pressed to find a script that does not have debugging even on the simplest of levels at some stage, and to that I am refering the have to have it kind of idea.

Of course, any change that was 'powerful' enough to prevent people from including these would also make most scripts too annoying to use.

So far only one of my products have a back door in it, but I also advertise the fact quite bluntly during the sale of the product. In fact, part of the steps involved in buying the product required agreeing to the existence of the backdoor.

Depending on how the backdoor is designed, what they do can range from diagnostic abilities for the creators, to much more malicious features. The concept of software backdoors isn't in of itself a bad thing, but I do think they should be identified to the potential buyer before sale, be it in a notecard, or some other fashion.

- Newfie

I know the definition - and I beleive in your context the first part is the most applicable... so now the onus is upon you show that it is a deliberate practice used in order to secure an unfair or unlawful gain.

So what is the 'gain'? if its 'you can't use gamey shit against us because we are the creators and admin of said game' then thats a lil hard.

You have to prove that they did it for the sole purpose of making you buy another one.

So... let me know how that works out for ya.

I don't think it's nice - but I don't think it's fraud either.

I think thats just a term being bandied around like folks yelling 'SLANDER' and 'EXTORTION!'

You're wearing your only copy of the object. o_O;;;

Or is it no-copy?

Does it actually stop the scripts from running or just make it so it doesn't work on the creator?

What does it do?

Rule #1 of arms dealing, don't get shot with your own merchandise.

From the sound of things Argent, it sounds like it uses llSetScriptState() to turn itself off. With no way to mod the script (I assume) there doesn't seem to be a way to turn it back on unless you have a secondary script which is dedicated to turning on and off force powers.


Too true. >


I do agree with back doors. They're there as a useful programming aid should a program go out of control (like endless loops within an event driven program with the back door being a highest priority control so you can kill the program and restart). It's also, as suggested above, a good means of interacting with things while they're in use (beta testing with others) to get invaluable information. In SL moreso than the real world though, back doors on weaponry or grief capable scripts have my full support. I as a script's creator am responsible for bringing the wanton destruction a nuke or teleporting push bullet gun can inflict, and should I have the opportunity to stop it I will. The real inventors of such weaponry wish they could do this sort of thing, but sadly you can't shout "disable and unload!" when being held up at a convenience store to get out of the situation.

I agree with that part of it, but tell me. Do you agree with people who can use this backdoor just to turn off a product someone bought from them because they dont like that person? And do you agree with them giving that backdoor to other people who will and DO use it maliciously?

It doesnt stop the scripts from running as for some reason the script cant be reset, recompiled or disabled. What it does is set a variable in the script so that the functions in the script cannot be used. period. like this

if(nouse != 1)
{
normaloperation();
}
else
{
donothing();
}

and under listen

if(msg == "shutdown"
{
nouse = 1;
}

Its that simple. And it easily disables the script

Depends on how you define "Do not like a person". That's such a drama laden term.

For anything that can be used by griefers, for example, I absolutely agree with it - If I sold a weapon system, for example, I would definetly include a way to disable it if it's being used by a griefer. Back when carry-around CDs that crappily looped music over and over were the "big thing", I know several people who sold them included a self-destruct command in the script for the same reason, because they were a great passive-griefing item.

Except that the default state would have to be nouse = 1, or else resetting the script would solve the problem. Likewise it couldn't just be set to be always off except when you buy it because the vendor would have to activate it, and the moment you took it off and reequipped it the script would be shut down. To disable it in this fashion, it would have to either have a permanent variable system (so you store an "on" or "off" in some child prim's texture offset for instance) or you'd have to have the script turn itself off.

As for turning something off because I don't like them, I don't hate any particular person just because they exist (except my father, but that's a matter between him and me). I CAN see people having some sort of a grudge against another such that if they knew they could do so, they'd disable products that they sell to that person. But that's a rare case, for the most part a programmer who works a back door into their program doesn't do so with this in mind. I consider it irresponsible for a programmer NOT to include a kill switch into weaponry.

The default state wouldnt necessarily have to be nouse = 1. If the script is unresettable like MANY are these days.... Then you cant reset it.

The default state wouldnt necessarily have to be nouse = 1. If the script is unresettable like MANY are these days.... Then you cant reset it. The problem with backdoors like this, while they might be good ideas for halting griefers.... What do they do in the hands of someone.... Who is a griefer or someone who has no moral judgement.

You tell others and form a sanction against their products. They either get the idea and stop being an ass or fade from public view.

What does the *script* do? What is "Force Elements"?