The newbies, guns, their victims and the grid
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Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
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05-20-2006 03:03
From: Alazarin Mondrian Griping about me again, Dianne? From my POV, you're the griefer. Yes, I do large scale builds. I think big. That's my nature. I'll start work on a project and I might get called away to the phone, or other family demand in RL before I've had time to save my work. Am I going to delete it to keep miserablists like yourself (who resent the fact that anyone else can do anything at all) happy? No, I'll leave my work in place until I can get back online. Don't like it? Get a Linden on the case, because until the day I get a Linden asking me not to use the public sandboxes, they're my space as much as yours. And as a premium account holder, I'm paying for the priviliege of using places like the public sandboxes. I'm a premium account holder too. Frankly, huge builds in public sandboxes mean that I can barely find a corner to rez in at times. This is denying me, a premium account holder, the sandbox space. This would be okay if I see someone working on them, but often they are left behind without an owner in sight. Is it too much to ask you, premium account holder to premium account holder, to save as you work and make an effort to take it with you? You don't have to delete your build, you have the option to take it. And if you label the parts as you rez them, you can easily reassemble them when you come back. Or even link them up as you finish each part. You can link and unlink prims at will. Plenty of other options than delete for you.
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Alazarin Mondrian
Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,549
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05-20-2006 04:30
Star, here's how a typical day in Cordova or Goguen goes for me: 1) Wait for sandbox to be cleared. 2) Rez current work project at ground level or up in the sky. 3) Get down to it for a few hours merrily building / editing / doing a photo-shoot / showing a prospective client around my current project / whatever.... 4) Phone rings / visitor arrives in RL / other RL thing crops up demanding immediate attention / client crashes (frequent problem in the sandboxes)... I simply don't get time to save my work or anything. 5) Return 5 minutes / half hour / hour / 2-3 hours later, find work intact where I left it, thank the great hippo, and then save / continue as appropriate. As someone who has spent most of their waking hours in SL for the last year, RL still takes precedence over SL every time. Some of my projects have huge quantites of sections that need to be saved. This takes time. Even using a rez-faux (which I have), a rez-foo or builder buddy (an excellent freebie) it takes time to save and archive edits. Which then need to be checked by re-rezzing the build to make sure all the parts are there. OK, mebbe I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but I prefer to keep my builds aligned to the grid. It makes calculations much easier. Taking a 270-metre high arcology as a single object is just not possible for me. Even with a rez-faux it takes 2 boxes. Making sure that a build that size is accurately aligned would be a major headache and would take hours in itself. I know.... that's how I had to do things before I got my rez-faux. FWIW, I enjoy the 'builder's yard' vibe in the big sandboxes. I like to meet other builders and discuss our projects / ideas / building tips. And, as a footnote, I'll be away from the sandboxes for a while as I'm working on a music performance project for SL. But, in the words of Ahnuld: 'I'll be back' Now you know why I've put alot of my votes behind the proposition for off-line and/or self-hosted sims / sandboxes. Dianne, keep whining about me: I need the publicity. TIA.
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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05-20-2006 04:59
can we stop the self masturbation please? i alwais though the sandboxes where a place reserved for beginners to learn the ropes during their first months, i believe also that anybody that need more than 1/10 of these sandbox should buy land in sl to the proper measurement of their ego rather than hoarding land that is here for public use. in fact someone in sl for more than 6 months should have nothing to do in the sandboxes, maybe it would motivate some to get some land
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 tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
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Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
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05-20-2006 05:05
That's all well and good. But that does not solve my problem of not being able to use the sandbox while your unattended stuff is in my way. I'm saying save while you build. "Take copy" is also on the pie menu. That way, if you get called away from SL and get wiped, you can rez it. " 3) Get down to it for a few hours merrily building / editing / doing a photo-shoot / showing a prospective client around my current project / whatever...." In those few hours, you simply have no time to save a copy into your inventory in case something happens? As for realigning, you are building on public land. How long does it take to realign the build when you get it to its final destination? Yeah, it takes time. I have to hunt for a sandbox that doesn't have a dozen unattended builds in it so I can build. So the time you save by leaving your build behind is time I have to spend searching for a sandbox. So why is your time more valuable than my time? From: Alazarin Mondrian Star, here's how a typical day in Cordova or Goguen goes for me: 1) Wait for sandbox to be cleared. 2) Rez current work project at ground level or up in the sky. 3) Get down to it for a few hours merrily building / editing / doing a photo-shoot / showing a prospective client around my current project / whatever.... 4) Phone rings / visitor arrives in RL / other RL thing crops up demanding immediate attention / client crashes (frequent problem in the sandboxes)... I simply don't get time to save my work or anything. 5) Return 5 minutes / half hour / hour / 2-3 hours later, find work intact where I left it, thank the great hippo, and then save / continue as appropriate. As someone who has spent most of their waking hours in SL for the last year, RL still takes precedence over SL every time. Some of my projects have huge quantites of sections that need to be saved. This takes time. Even using a rez-faux (which I have), a rez-foo or builder buddy (an excellent freebie) it takes time to save and archive edits. Which then need to be checked by re-rezzing the build to make sure all the parts are there. OK, mebbe I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but I prefer to keep my builds aligned to the grid. It makes calculations much easier. Taking a 270-metre high arcology as a single object is just not possible for me. Even with a rez-faux it takes 2 boxes. Making sure that a build that size is accurately aligned would be a major headache and would take hours in itself. I know.... that's how I had to do things before I got my rez-faux. FWIW, I enjoy the 'builder's yard' vibe in the big sandboxes. I like to meet other builders and discuss our projects / ideas / building tips. And, as a footnote, I'll be away from the sandboxes for a while as I'm working on a music performance project for SL. But, in the words of Ahnuld: 'I'll be back' Now you know why I've put alot of my votes behind the proposition for off-line and/or self-hosted sims / sandboxes.
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Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
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05-20-2006 05:12
From: Kyrah Abattoir can we stop the self masturbation please? i alwais though the sandboxes where a place reserved for beginners to learn the ropes during their first months, i believe also that anybody that need more than 1/10 of these sandbox should buy land in sl to the proper measurement of their ego rather than hoarding land that is here for public use. in fact someone in sl for more than 6 months should have nothing to do in the sandboxes, maybe it would motivate some to get some land I have land. But building a house without flying into somebody's parcel can be difficult at times. I like to use the public sandboxes so I can fly around freely and inspect my work. However the only time I ever leave my work unattended is if I crash. However, I save my work so if it gets wiped before I get back on I can rez the last version and go on from there. Also when working with tiny stuff, it's better to use a sandbox because if you lose it, you can have it returned to you. I'd rather not stuff my whole house back into inventory cause I lost a tiny item.
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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05-20-2006 05:13
From: Star Sleestak That's all well and good. But that does not solve my problem of not being able to use the sandbox while your unattended stuff is in my way.
I'm saying save while you build. "Take copy" is also on the pie menu. That way, if you get called away from SL and get wiped, you can rez it.
" 3) Get down to it for a few hours merrily building / editing / doing a photo-shoot / showing a prospective client around my current project / whatever...."
In those few hours, you simply have no time to save a copy into your inventory in case something happens?
As for realigning, you are building on public land. How long does it take to realign the build when you get it to its final destination?
Yeah, it takes time. I have to hunt for a sandbox that doesn't have a dozen unattended builds in it so I can build. So the time you save by leaving your build behind is time I have to spend searching for a sandbox. So why is your time more valuable than my time? his build is bigger than yours wich is why it distord his perception
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 tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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05-20-2006 07:02
From: Vares Solvang In the sixteen months I have been visiting Second Life I have been shot at random by a griefer MAYBE eight times total. I really don't think this is as big a problem as it's made out to be. Right, Vares. You're a professional solipsist with a mean streak. You -are- one of those people who gets enjoyment out of screwing with others. And suddenly you're judge and jury because you've been here since January of 05? There are almost 900 sims in SecondLife. I manage three, and have (managed at least two of those) for almost three years. Your singular experience is not descriptive of others --- even if you do fancy yourself a bad-ass. Every time we bring this up, there's some ass who says "It isn't a problem." and thus feels the declaration has been set, and that we -must- just be complaining about *nothing* out of thin air. Luskwood gets 'hit' 3-5 times on weekdays, and 5-8 times on weekend days. And I'm fucking tired of it. And no, I won't entertain the likely "solution" of, "Well, why don't you just leave SL then." It's something that could be easily fixed, even if it meant that people with an extreme urogenital compensation problem could be effectively banned from an area.
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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05-20-2006 07:12
From: Travis Lambert Prop 244 was accepted by Linden last fall. In a reply to an Answers post on the subject, Robin indicated these improved tools would be available the first quarter of 2006. As you can see, not only hasn't that happened - there isn't even a set timeline of when they will be available. Part of me feels like it was accepted just so I (and others) would stop harping on the subject. We were told that some of them would be in 1.9.1/1.10. Philip said, when asked point blank two townhalls ago: "Will the mainland get tools that the islands have", he simply answered: "Yes." I don't know what the recourse is at this point. Posting in Answers and getting a non-answer? like: "We always hope to improve the SL experience. Thanks!" If LL is looking to move everyone onto an island, then I wish they'd come out and say so.
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Alazarin Mondrian
Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,549
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05-20-2006 07:21
Kyrah, I can't afford the amount of land needed for my builds. And, no, I see no reason to stunt my imagination just because I'm short on cash. One of the reasons SL (especially the mainland) is such a train wreck is precisely because so many of the people who have the money to buy land haven't a clue.
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Troy Vogel
Marginal Prof. of ZOMG!
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 478
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05-20-2006 22:00
This discussion is getting too personal. Please deal with your personal rivalries in world.
We have completely lost the topic of the discussion.
Let's get back to discussing the topic of the thread or let this thread die in peace.
The good participants get all As and the bad participation gets E for effort.
Troy
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ninjafoo Ng
Just me :)
Join date: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 713
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05-20-2006 23:51
From: Troy Vogel This discussion is getting too personal. Please deal with your personal rivalries in world. And thats part of the problem, if your blasted by a very well armed newbie, i'm sorry, but that aint no newbie.
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Seronis Zagato
Verified Resident
Join date: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 454
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05-21-2006 00:11
Last week i was thinking of this very same issue and set up a discussion and voting proposal about some ways to clean up the greif issues in regards to push effects. Id like your feedback on if you think the push limitations i suggestion would clean up most of those issues you mention. Im not asking for more votes so dont feel this is just a plug, nor do i ask you to carry the discussion there. Just keep on your original topic taking into consideration if the push suggestions help or not.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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05-21-2006 02:03
Until we get the Lindens to stop coddling the local assclowns this problem will NOT go away.
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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05-22-2006 12:00
Sometimes i begin to think some of the griefers are linden alts...
Anyway I usually take my builds (if i ever ever visit a sandbox) to 700m up... I do not require a ground because i have flight tools. I do this to make sure the threat is minimal. Most of the time i spend in my home sim to do my builds but the place gets so dang laggy at times i tend to sneak to a sandbox and go WAY up...
My fear in the mainland is running greifers that think SL is a FPS game and we are all their openants... Or It's Carmageddon and we're a bunch of pedestrians... The kind that talk like they are 10 years old (probably are) "LOL U DIE LOL LOL! *spaz*".
And what is up with this 'LAWL' crap? Some people say it like its net lingo and its some really cool word... *rolls eyes* For crying out loud the word is 'LOL' and it was pronounced as a word by some kid playing World of Warcraft... In my time of being a net freak i tend to say "lol" a bit, but i don't say it IRL. I actually laugh!
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Sean Martin
Yesnomaybe.
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 584
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05-22-2006 12:51
From: Yiffy Yaffle Sometimes i begin to think some of the griefers are linden alts...
Anyway I usually take my builds (if i ever ever visit a sandbox) to 700m up... I do not require a ground because i have flight tools. I do this to make sure the threat is minimal. Most of the time i spend in my home sim to do my builds but the place gets so dang laggy at times i tend to sneak to a sandbox and go WAY up...
My fear in the mainland is running greifers that think SL is a FPS game and we are all their openants... Or It's Carmageddon and we're a bunch of pedestrians... The kind that talk like they are 10 years old (probably are) "LOL U DIE LOL LOL! *spaz*".
And what is up with this 'LAWL' crap? Some people say it like its net lingo and its some really cool word... *rolls eyes* For crying out loud the word is 'LOL' and it was pronounced as a word by some kid playing World of Warcraft... In my time of being a net freak i tend to say "lol" a bit, but i don't say it IRL. I actually laugh! I believe a good amount of new people coming into SL are about that age. 10 to 15 or so. Probably with their parents credit cards. Kids will go where they want online and there isn't much to stop that. In the past 4 or 5 months I've seen more people talking like they came from GW. That same "age" group seem more prevalent now in SL. GW is a game that is open to all ages. Most of them are kids. One of the last encounters was someone saying I'm a "noob". Because I had a way around their "uber" weapon. As far as I can tell nobody has used the word Noob around SL in it's derogatory form until recently. Unlike the kids in other platforms. When I first started in SL it was a total contrast between GW and this place. Now I go to the sandbox and at least one person is hyper. By "hyper" I mean they rez an object, throw it around, then rez something else in a matter of seconds. Leave the previous item where it was. And talk in some leet or another like you mentioned. Complete childish behavior in my opinion. Unless we just opened the flood gates of Age Playing adults, with ADD, yet like using adult avatars? 
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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05-22-2006 16:27
And, of course, people who are physically and legally adults are incapable of acting like immature, braindead twits whose HS diploma may well have come from a box of Cracker Jacks... 
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Tikki Kerensky
Insane critter
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 687
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05-22-2006 16:53
From: Michi Lumin We were told that some of them would be in 1.9.1/1.10. Philip said, when asked point blank two townhalls ago: "Will the mainland get tools that the islands have", he simply answered: "Yes."
I don't know what the recourse is at this point. Posting in Answers and getting a non-answer? like: "We always hope to improve the SL experience. Thanks!"
I think it's time we just ask. Meet me in the hotline! err.. Answers!
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Pudding takes away the pain, the pain of not having pudding.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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05-23-2006 13:40
I've replied on SL Answers.  Something related I'd like to mention... For a long time, I know one of the big PITAs has been "Why doesn't muting someone also mute the NOISES they make to stop SOUND GRIEFING? Like a TRUE AUDIO MUTE?" Progress has been made on this: it's coming in pieces to be fully assembled. Here's what's going on: As of SL 1.10, if you Mute someone, you will NO longer receive offline IMs and teleport offers sent from them. This, as many know, was previously not the case.The next major step of course is to extend this even further, so that muting someone will be a TRUE AUDIO MUTE. It's a lot of work to do--and harder than some might think--but it's important to get it done.
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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05-23-2006 13:42
hehe, follow this progression and eventually we won't be able to SEE them! woot!!! (I wish)
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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05-23-2006 13:52
From: Rickard Roentgen hehe, follow this progression and eventually we won't be able to SEE them! woot!!! (I wish) I already don't. But my mute button has a couple zeroes in the title.
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Elmishio Pertwee
Join date: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 0
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Hmmm.... "invisiblifying mute"
05-23-2006 14:31
(argh, sorry, I just realized this is way off where this thread started, but I still wanted to mention it) OK, here's the idea (and I have NO idea whether this will work, or is even possible) Find direction from current camera to target(Mutee) (call the line lineA) 2 meters closer to the camera on that lineA from the Mutee, place a 2 meter tall, and 0.5 meter wide plane (call it PlaneInv). 1 meter beyond the Mutee, on the same line, place another object, which has a script that takes a picture along lineA. Apply that picture as a texture to PlaneInv. Now, as you look toward the target, you'll see the texture applied to PlaneInv, and no avatar  This idea requires some significant scripting power, if it's possible.
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