New Developer Incentive Idea: Award For Not having a laggy club

I'm not an expert by any stretch, but this doesn't seem likely. Your avatar is continually animated whether you're dancing or not (albeit not as much), I can't imagine the animation itself is having much impact.

Edit: One possibiltiy you may encounter is that if you're near a bunch of avatars flailing about wearing 10000 tori hair or spikes or some similarly ridiculous thing, as they dance to and fro your client may be simplifying/enhancing the shapes as they move in and out of range as it does when you zoom in and out on an object.

There is a difference between clubs and events. "clubs" is a subset of "events". You are absolutely correct with your assessment of "events", but if "clubs" were not there, the other parts of events could ... in plain english ... pick up the slack.


Oh, very true, I agree. I just don't consider slapping down 4 walls and a roof, some dance anims, and market all your mall-type products right there counts as anything remotely like what you just described.

Hire a DJ, manage some staff ... we're getting closer. Design a nice looking club that is an interesting environment ... better still. ... anyway...



That's because your thinking is not align with the way it works.

Animations are client-rendered, they just appear to lag because the rest of the scene is waiting for data to draw. Note if it was server-rendered, we could do hit detection on the server -ultimately, we'll have to do it that way if we ever want rag-doll type avatar physics.

It's not me dancing, it's a bunch of people all dancing at once! It's much worse than a bunch of people just standing around together.

coco

P.S. OK Hiro, so it could be that my particular computer just can't handle avatars dancing, right?

Yeah, but my point was less 'you' and more 'everyone's avatar is always animated.'

Also, this'll probably get buried and never read again on my last post, but here's one thought:

Although not so many, anymore. Well-designed ones are going more with HUDs (in the case of AOs) and/or touch events, any more.

Which doesn't mean there isn't still a lot of crap out there, but it is possible to be a lag-friendly blinger.

So, Hiro, if I can bring you to our spa, and you were to see that it is (as it is) an interesting build with many opportunities for interaction (event and animations based) as well as exploration (hidden stuff, library) and if I could further show you that it isn't laggy,
and provides exactly what I described, would you give me the award for not having a laggy club? Or maybe you'd care to sponsor the FFRC and provide opportunities for other people to create the rich content you'd like to see in place of laggy clubs?

Or, consider maybe donating some posecubes for prizes for the "name that video game music" event? We already have some of the best SL DJs: Moira Stern, Digital Enigma and the one and only Cirga Control. We have a crackerjack Events Manager. We have rich content. Currently, though, this will all have to be paid for out of my SL sales (every penny I make in SL goes to supporting the spa) AND out of my own pocket (every penny I make in SL can't come close to the full costs of running the spa) unless I can convince users to pay for their entertainment, and having been (unsuccessfully) down that road before, I'm thinking it may be more logical to pack it in and quit beating a dead horse.

Please do come by the Phoenix Spa Resort sometime. I'd love to show you what SL is in danger of losing. I say that not in a "i'm so important and the world will cease to exist without me" kind of way, but in a "this is an example of what LOTS of events venues are and isn't it worth saving?" kind of way.

Well, Pers ... I never was attacking your club specifically, and if you expell even a quarter of the passion you express for your club, I'm sure it can't be too bad.

But, sure ... since you have invited me now twice, catch me online sometime and I'd love to visit. As for the award ... I don't think I have any kind of standing to give one.



I do my part with tools that I build.


I could toss you a few 'cubes, sure. I don't promote clubs, generally, but it's good advertising for me.


Yeah ... yeah ... okay, my arm is twisted. hehehe

i'd like to enter a 10 m x 10 m platform for my entry for lagless club.

avs cause lag (STUPID NOOB!)

Was that necessary? Or intelligently phrased?

I think the IQ of the thread went down 30 points with that comment.

i agree. i think it's at -30 now.

Well, as with any mean of a data set, any sufficiently low value can bring down what otherwise would be a high mean value.

maybe if you are making a competition you should sort through the difference between the sim states fps and rt rendering fps.

open listeners, vendors, and money balls and other scripts impact sim fps. with 1.7, script priority thingamajigs have been resolved such that the super crowded xxx club in belmundo, next door to me, maintains a sim fps of 40-45 at all times.

what makes a club unplayable is the client side lag. the main source is the problem in RT rendering. considering that the SL renderer optimizes texture resolutions client side based on hardware specs and particles cause minimal affect to rendering speed, the grind in the rt rendering in clubs can be seen to relate most directly to the number of avs present.

maybe we should call the competition "i didn't spend anytime thinking about the problem and so instead wanted to propogate the well thumped myth about how club builders are responsible for laggy events however if i stopped humping LL's leg for a minute i would realize it is a limitation of the rendering engineand the available hardware and the real developer incentive is already in place for LL employees to improve the club experience - ie have a job to go to- which they have been pretty good at as the last few patches can attest to" " "

the best option to minimizing lag is to play mIRC Life

Doesn't this require some special passcodes and admittance to some elite society? From reading the other threads, I thought the only way to gain access to mIRC Life was some extremely complex routine that on a few people know who happen to be pets of the Lindens.

You realize you sound like the stereotypical idea of what Linden customer service is like? ("It's the user's problem, not ours!" And you accuse me of Linden-leg-humping?

You could have 40 avatars in an area sitting still, and compare that to 40 avatars dancing, and it's virtually the same fps; animation rendering just isn't as big a sink as the bottleneck of everyone trying to download everything around them, and each person talking hitting dozens of open listeners.

Seriously, Jauani, you don't need to teach me your misconceptions about lag. I especially don't need your sanctimonious insults. ("stupid n00b!"

Speaking as someone who spends 99% of his SL experience inside a club environment, I don't think Jauani is that far off the mark.

I hope you take Perse up on her offer, Hiro.

I'm sure Perse has a nice club.

omg you mean it's downloading that overheats my cpu?

carry on being irrelevant, then.

No, but he may mean the deal with the SL client waiting to download everything before renderingm y'know, that can cause the appearance of lag.

Hiro, check out Schmooze in Pixel Dreams, its the corner of the sim, 10 stories up in the Black skyscraper, you may be quite surprised.


~Tya

That figures.

Can I nominate myself? As a guy with no land, I most certainly don't have a club that lags with under thirty people in it!

Sorry to come so late to this thread but I only just saw it.

I am the Events Manager for the Phoenix Day Spa (Perse's 'club'). Hiro we don't have a club. We have an events venue. We work hard and spend a lot of money to put on varied events. We have sponsored fashion shows for lesser known designers, we have several educational events per month, we do picture contests, formal and big band dances, treasure hunts, trivia contests, live music events, story telling events, newbie Q&A's and .. well other stuff. I'm not going to list it all here -- too much. And every month we add more. And we hire DJs and sometimes we have club nights.

We don't do *.*ingo. We don't have gambling. We don't do *best of* other than maybe best formal if we are having a formal night or something. But there's no best tat, best red and black, best slutwear, best whatever. We have a small area with vendors but we generally don't emphasize that, our events are usually held on the other side of the sim from that, and we invite other developers and content makers to sponsor events and our DJs showcase their work and give away small items. We've worked damn hard to be inclusive, to have inclusive events and provide solid entertainment. As a matter of fact, I'll posit that we provide content of a different sort. One does not have to work with prims and photoshop to be a developer. We develop events.

Heretofore, we haven't recieved one dime for our events. People pay for your content and they expect to. Now what we get to read on this board is "well *I* am not going to pay for events". But you know what? DJs cost money. Live musicians cost money. Event hosts cost money. This stuff ain't cheap.

I don't agree with Jauani about the majority of her/his post but maybe you DO need to get out more and maybe you DIDN'T think much about the problem. And before you start complaining about how the events list is all full of *.*ingo and the like -- do you know how many piece of shit crap shops I had to visit before I found something as good as yours? We all have to sift through chaft to find the wheat.

I'm not saying oh we are so important to SL that things will fall apart if all the good event venues just say screw it and throw in the towel. I am saying that I think we are just as important a resource as those who work with prims and photoshop. I am also saying that we (event venues and producers) are looking at a 6-9 month difficult transition period while we try to figure out how to continue doing this without going broke. Having to read how you consider us valueless second class citizens doesn't help.

Y'know, Viv.... I need to expand on that a little:

Since I was a relative newbie, I've felt the word "Club" was equivelent to a scarlet letter in the forums. As a result, very rarely will you see me refer to the Shelter as a 'Club': I've vascilated between "Lounge", "Hang out Spot", "Neighborhood Bar" - and lately "Rec Center"

It strikes me funny that I'm so concerned about a simple word that I go thru these mechanations. But the truth is, there is a certain stigma that goes along with running/attending a club - despite the fact that 'club' has morphed into something that has a wide range of definitions nowadays.

A unique recipie that fell together before you or I were even born in SL helped make this stigma stick:

1 Big part John
1 Small part Chance
1 Gigantic part Dwell

Boil until foamy.

The original sort of club that was around when I was a newbie (of the BJJ variety) was what made me long for something better. You and I, and others - have created venues in response to that kind of 'club'. But even after all this time, we're still trying to distance ourselves from that nasty word.

Maybe once Dwell finally goes away (if it does) - we'll have a chance to prove we can succeed or fail on our own merits, and not be hindered by stereotypes of being simple dwellopers.

Ah, Vivianne, this is where I came in on this movie. I said that when I first joined SL! I called it "non-physical content."

And I say now, as I did then, that it does no good to have people all dressed up with no place to go.

You think it's bad now, wait till they get rid of traffic bonuses.

coco