An ethics question...is it spam or is it advertising?

I've been dealing with SPAM and trying to stop spammers for nearly the last ten years. Another term for spam is UCE - Unsolicited Comercial E-mail.

This may not be email, but it's the SL equivelent and it *is* unsolicited and it *is* comercial and it *is* SPAM.

The OP was talking about a very polite version of it, spam is not defined by how politely it's done, but by it's unsolicited nature. Regardless of how polite it is, it's the sort of thing that's the thin end of the wedge, the camel's nose in the tent.

If one person does it, it's not such a problem, but imagine if *every* business in SL did it, or even a portion of them. Even if each of them only did it *once* and promised that they'd never do it again, IM would become useless for it's intended purpose of actually communicating with the people you chose to. This sort of thing is *exactly* how spam started in e-mail. Spamming is against SL's TOS, and despite their lack of understanding on certain other quality of life issues, I'm pretty sure that LL knows *exactly* how dangerous spam can be.

I have to say that if I were to recieve any unsolicited advertising by IM (Or notecard, or inventory drop.) I would consider it spam, and I would imediately AR whoever sent it, and there are likely to be plenty of other people out there who feel and would react the same way.

Finally, I'd like to aplaude the OP for getting feedback on this issue, and deciding not to go ahead with it.

I thought spam was a violation of the TOS. Con someone confirm or deney this?

I am strongly opposed to any kind if unsolicited intrusion into my SL, just as I am opposed to the polite RL door to door salesperson ringing my doorbell and interrupting my private life. The method you outlined is more polite then most, but still, the only reason you would be contacting me, intruding into my life, is because you want to sell me something. When I want to buy something, I will go looking for it and search in find places or classifies for what I am looking for. Please don't send me solitictations.

The votes actually say that this is a pretty good advertising mode.

Just about every form of advertising irritates someone and the stats above seem to be better than those for less popular TV commercials. Not quite the Bud WASSSUP campaign but it's not being universally despised either.

Not great, but not bad either.

It was really only 10 people? One day last week, I got a notecard advertisement from you, as did my alt. And the very same day, my RL friend who just signed up last week IMmed me and asked "who's Allana Dion? She just sent me a notecard."

Since our names are scattered throughout the Find menu, that's some pretty crazy odds out of a quarter-million avatars!

im shure you would change your opinion if (only) half the shop owners gave you a call every day, welcome to SecondSpam, your e-mail is full and you have 85k IM's from ppl you dont know selling you stuff you didnt want :0

I'd have to say it's spam and you shouldn't do it - it sets a bad precedent. Spam by it's nature is a problem by virtue of its sheer volume. If you do it, so can every other business in second life and your one polite IM becomes an unending flood of possibly polite, but intrusive, time consuming and unwanted messages.

I have to say, at one time I was right in the middle of something that I couldn't take my eyes off of and got a notecard thrust in front of me. I did tell the sender that I was quite unhappy about it and I was pretty huffy....in retrospect I wish I hadn't been so grumpy about it, but she caught me off guard and I was no customer of hers, just a contact on her list.

Look at the poll. From a macro perspective those numbers are not bad, it's not like only 2% were ok to neutral with it.

Unlike the usual spam I get IRL hers is very polite. The spam I'm used to has a shoved-in-your-face feel. Also, she is targetting her market, which is something spammers generally don't do. They target everyone including people who are way way way way way way way out of their demographic.

It's bordering on spam but it has a lot going for it that spam doesn't.

There's an easy rule to follow:

NEVER, EVER send out unsolicited advertisements to people you haven't already met, communicated with, and have somehow been informed that the person would accept or welcome your communication.

OPT-IN is the ONLY fair method of advertising, and OPT-IN means that the person has to take an affirmative step to receive your advertising. Any other method of communication is spam, plain and simple - even if it does come with a free gift.

Now before everybody in the world starts hitting me with things like "what about web site pop-ups?" and "what about banner ads?", I say this:

1. Banner ads don't get in the way of the content i'm trying to view, and they don't take time to close, delete, move, or otherwise deal with.
2. I use pop-up blockers. Pop-ups are evil, as bad as spam in my eyes. I believe that web browsers shoudn't display pop up windows in the load or close events. Pop-ups, like e-mail advertising, should be opt-IN: should only happen when you click a button or link on a page.

How long have you been using the Internet? Spam wasn't allway of the "MAKE PENIS FAST!!!!" varity. I remember a time when there were still spammers who'd respond to you if you e-mailed them back, and were only picking people from certin "apropriate" Usenet newsgroups to spam.

However, it didn't take very long before they started realizing that there was no good reason to restrict their messasges to just people who who might possibly be interested. That it was just as simple to hit 100,000 or a million people as 100.

The fact is, that if you're sending advertising over a private channel without the consent *in advance* of that person, it's spam.

And spam *is* against the SL TOS and there are plenty of people (Like me.) who *will* AR it, each and every time it happens.

I've been around the internet since Netscape 1.0. Long enough I suppose?

You highlighted an important difference. The earlier ones responded and picked.

I never said the approach would be or should be universally liked and I'm 100% sure that many will hate it. There will be people who are ok with it, there will be those who will take out their shotguns. Which is the same situation that all other forms of advertising face.

When one makes ANY form of advertising (TV, print, radio, internet), there will be someone out there who's going to hate it. Put a bodacious girl in an ad, you'll have some drooling, some turned off, some outright screaming exploitation.

Not all ad campaigns can be the "Wazzap" or the Energizer Bunny.

So advertisers just have to do the best they can to reach out and turn on as many people as they can and turn off as few as they can. True spammers cast a wider net. If the chance of acceptance is low (and it usually is) they hit more people to get their responses, they do pure numbers and they don't care who they ask.

You want a form of ad I hate more than her approach? Land for Sale Spinning boxes for dotting the skyline. The difference with her approach is, she asks once and after that it's out of your face.

I'm not a woman, but with her approach I'm ok with granting her that one IM at least. It's not like someone who yesterday out of the blue dropped a full info package on me.

Really, look at the poll numbers, 23 are ok with it 27 are not. That's WAY better than par for the unsolicited advertising category.

People like you make me tired. It's unsolicited, therefore it's spam, and spam *is* bad. I can't believe that at this point in time there are people out there who will *still* stick up for spam. Or are you a spammer yourself? Or maybe a marketdroid who who can't understand why they're not allowed to spam?

1. Spam doesn't scale. One person doing it is not a problem. But what happens when more and more businesses start sending you "just one message"? Do you have any idea how many businesses there are in SL? What happens, is exactly what has happened with e-mail. IM becomes unusable because most of the messages you get will *not* be from your friends, they'll be from businesses who want to sell you something.

2. Spam doesn't pay it's way. Other forms of advertising pay their own way. No matter how obnoxious a comercial is, it's still helping to pay for the program. Spam is *not* comperable. Spam is parasitic on the system, it pays for nothing.

3. Spam clutters up person to person communications channels. Telivision, signs, radio, banner adds, even pop-up ads work over one to many comunication mediums. IM, e-mail, phones, etc. are one to one communications methods. When they're used as a broadcast medium for advertising they get in the way of people to people comunications.

Anyway, as I've said before, Unsolicited comercial messages are spam and spamming is against SL's TOS, and spam *will* get AR'd.

Sometimes you just need that extra 10% girth

Spam is spam, no matter how polite. It wouldn't surprised me if you do your business more harm by spamming people. Sure, you may get a few new customers, but you will also get a few people disgruntled over the approach. The fact of the matter is, disgruntled people share their opions more readily and frequently than happy-with-product people.



LOL

Yep. And, "Hey, did you know that "such and such a business is spamming?" is something that can be seriously damaging. It's the sort of thing that's very likely to get a response of, "Oh, well, I guess I'll have to find someplace else to get X then."

You'll find very quickly that checking every individual profile before IM ing to ask permission is both exhausting and impossible.

Been there, done it, got the teeshirt.

When I started ONE I initially approached, on a one to one basis, about fifty 'name' creators with a view to them setting up there. The response, with a single exception, was so discouraging (to the point of contempt) that I gave up on established 'names'.

Thereafter I simply dropped notecards on people who were offering items for sale inworld, the ONLY complaint about spaming I received was from another 'name' who had slipped into my list (oh my, aren't we so very self important?).
I'm sure many 'spamphobics' simply ignored me, but many established and not so well known creators checked ONE out and decided to give it a try.
THEY got me off the ground. Something I'll not forget.

I really don't think a single notecard offering a good deal to a targeted group ammounts to 'spam'.
Sure some drama lovers will attempt to make an issue about it. Well there are more serious issues in SL than people advertising genuinely useful services. So get over it. What injury does it do you?

I like the attitude this merchant possesses and support her on the basis of:

1. only messaging online people. No filling offline email with solicitations
2. actively reading profiles to target people with a reasonable chance of being a potential customer
3. is NOT sending any objects that block screen at distracting times. Is first politely verifying interest
4. is actively making an effort to "never again" message someone who has shown disinterest
5. is not collecting lists of names of customers to try to sell those names to others interested in mass spamming (no pyramid effect of increased spam because you showed interest in one area)


If you add to your current policies by ALSO making sure you _PERMANANTLY_ opt-out anyone who doesnt actively show interest then this would be a good method for all SL people to use. 500, 5000 of them makes no difference. I'm only gonna be online 'so much'. I'm only gonna fit very limited demographics. And i have a gaurentee that simply closing the IM with no time spent responding will ensure that i do not get any items dropped on my profile and i never hear from that marketer again.

This is a win-win method for all involved as long as ALL the policies this person is using are maintained honestly. Its very limited and very targeted with instant removal for discontent 'forever'. That is not spam. At all.

Please dont abandon this advertising method just because some people (myself included) are vehemently angered by the real spammers. You're not one of them.

Have you thought of doing your freebies + ad up as a freebie box to put around 'stuff for newbies' areas?

Have you thought of leaving your freebie + ad in a freebie box at some of the 'stuff for newbies' areas?