Real or not Real?

I think everyone has forgotten that SL isn't real life its a venue for people to play and have fun and intertainment.
It is a welcome addition to our real life but once again we are reminded that LL reserves all rights on content. If they wanted to they could choose to shut the game down and nobody could change there mind.
All content and money would be at a loss. To bad so sad for anyone with high stakes in SL. Just got to remember it can be lost with the press of a button.
And there always is that new MMO that pops up unexpectedly and changes where players can and will go to.
I for one say anything with a delicate balance like that doesn't deserve to be taken to seriousely at all.Please reply with your thoughts.

SL is a virtual pseudo-reality, sure. But the effort people put into shaping it is very real, and the people shaping the worls are themselves quite real. I think there are those who get so caught up in the un-reality of the place they forget that it takes real people to make it happen.

People meet in SL, form lifelong friendships, and some meet in RL and get married after meeting and getting married in SL.

That's about as real as it gets.

Wow, this is a question that is borderline religious...

You will never recieve a definitive answer to this question because there is no definitive answer. A purist would say that SL does not exist... But, how can this be, because the data stream exists.

I for one, would say it like this: If you believe in parallel existances, in whatever shape or form they may come in, then each online world would be a parallel existance. Since all matter is only an event that we interact with of "real" data, how can we say that events of "artificial" data is not real? Our SL Avatars meet all the requirements for a living organism, even the part about consuming and reproducing, if you consider such to be in a data form. Since all real life is composed at its core of data, does that make a life in a virtual world any different?

My personal opinion, is that yes, SL is real, in some way. I dont think my mind is capable of fully comprehending what way that is, but yes, I do think that it really exists.

Feel free to take me out of context at any time, but do so knowing that I will stand by my personal convictions.

You know virtual doesn't mean 'non'.

vir·tu·al Audio pronunciation of "virtual" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrch-l)
adj.

1. Existing or resulting in essence or effect though not in actual fact, form, or name: the virtual extinction of the buffalo.
2. Existing in the mind, especially as a product of the imagination. Used in literary criticism of a text.

As you can see, a virtual existence is still an existance.

I'd also argue it's real because the people behind the avatars are real. Real people with real feelings, interests, loves, opinions, fears. They're avatars, they're not automations.

As we descend further into the digital age, distinctions between realities will become increasingly less relevant.

yes I agree Jillian.

SL is a mental construct. Sure... you can't touch it but does that define reality? Yes, primarily you are "thinking" it as you experience it. Does that mean that intellectual experiences are not real? If you have a conversation with someone on SL versus having a conversation on the street corner, is the SL discussion less real?

I sincerely hope my life will last longer than SL exists The term "Lifelong Friendship" is out of place for a world that only exists for a few years yet.

well i have met some people in SL that i now know in RL and wouldn't mind knowing for a good long while yet

We only care about the results:

If chopping a tree down with a vitual axe results in real wood on my fire, then I'm happy.

If climbing into a bed with a virtual girl results in real wood in my pants, then I'm happy.

But me personally, I don't do the virtual sex thing....


I like to be able to taste what I'm eating.

I think ppl who think it is "real" need to have their heads examined. Note the "quit" option. One cannot "quit" rl. Sure rl relationships can and do form that stem from this "imaginary" world. However SL produces no rl tangable products via the build function and so forth. If I build a house, I can't really live in it. Someone once called SL "like playing with barbies" I tend to agree. Very expensive barbies. Soon something will come along that will be like SL but there will never be anything like the original SL. You know the one full of promiss and hope for a way to make "real" changes via player to player concepts and projects. In the end, it's a nice little game that will not change the world.

>600 sec. time out.

LL's director of marketing described Second Life as a "tool and a toy" to student journalists at Ball State University. Not a "game", not a philosophical conundrum, nor a complicated "enigma"....

And nothing to get upset about. Strawberry fields forever....

Point of this post is SL is a prgoram that at any time can and will end.
Best thing is to pull high stakes out of the game.
Keep it fun keep it friendly and most of all have fun.
Yes keep on saying what is liked as well as disliked about SL.
Take nothing personally because after all most folks don't know the real you.
Its nothing personal its just avies after all.

I agree with your sentiments in general, Darque (about not taking SL too seriously) but on the quoted point you're not exactly accurate. Three years ago, LL renounced claim to IP rights:

http://lindenlab.com/press/releases/03_11_14



Yes they could, although I have a feeling there might be a few high-rollers hiring attorneys in that event.

*yawns* Hmm... you do realize that doom and gloom isn't 'keeping it friendly,' correct? And why are YOU so concerned about other people in a virtual world, if the Lindens can close it at any time? Answer those and then you'll see that other people's responses don't really matter in the end. Each of us is here doing what we want for reasons of our own, some might be similar but still our own.

I will say that I am here because it is something to do. I can be creative here, creating things that I don't have space or the finances to create in real life. It has affected my RL, since I have learned how different albeit virtual societies interact, and I have also honed many skills that some company may find marketable.

Now, what are YOUR reasons for existing in the virtual world?

I care for the people I play with. I love the interaction with them and would like to see it last as long as possible. I voice my concerns as i would to anyone here as in RL hoping to make some sense and provoke good change. Not forcing an opinion but voicing concern and if it falls on deaf ears then let it fall.
Your reasons for being here are mine as well.I love creating learning and the ability to do that is here.
if we all just agree to everything and never disagree it could be pretty boring don't you think ?

Because I can.


There are many business in life that can have the rug pulled out from them at the drop of a hat due to the actions of a third party, it does not make those businesses less relevant or less "real".

Please post more dictionary and wikipedia entries. It really clarifies things for everyone. If we don't get the proper terminology nailed down, how will we be able to move on in our virtual or our real lives?

If reading your virtual post caused me to spew Dr. Pepper all over my keyboard, then I am still mopping it up real life.

I aplogize for preventing you from swallowing what you was drinking.

Good lord am I sick of this retarded argument.

It's a Developmentally Challenged Argument, thank you

Maybe so, but Starax' quote was worth the trouble

The world? Not real.
The bodies? Not real.
The minds behind the players? Very real.

Just like with so many other things where people gather and communicate on the internet (IRC, for example), the environment isn't real, but the persons behind the virtual names are.

So, I don't think you can ask if SL is real or not. It is both. Physically unreal, but mentally? Very real, admit it or not.

I keep hearing "No Drama". Of cause there's drama in SL, and I sometimes really wonder why that is supposed to be a bad thing. It means that there's sensitive people, and I have my own theories about this. Some people are here in SL because they feel lonely in RL or cannot express themselves in RL. Others are here just for the fun and don't intend to dip in deeper into the pool of feelings and mindsets involved. Usually, the later tend to be more flashy, so they catch the attention of the lonely people, and so we got a clash of interests and the drama starts. But, just by saying "no drama", you don't solve the problem, really. But.. I am sidetracked, heh.

*meow*
Sheila!

Eh, I can go to a software store and buy these fun little things made up of ones and zeros. Sort of like when I buy stuff in SL made up of ones and zeros, except I don't have to get in my car and drive to the store to buy them. Those same fingers I use to dig into my wallet at Best Buy, I use to type on this keyboard to get products in SL. Just because a product is virtual, doesn't make it any less a product.

I don't understand the need for people to psychologize online activity as being somehow "not real, and if you think it is you are nuts", and hopefully that superstition fades with time. It's an aspect of real life just as is being in a text or voice conference with friends.

Please don't transfer your angst onto the rest of us. Not everyone compartmentalizes the same way, if at all.

Let me tell you all a little story. I joined SL a few weeks ago just for giggles. Thought it might be a fun diversion for a while. Somewhere along the way, in this short time, I made some dear friends. I rented an apartment. I went to a virtual wedding. I even, much to my surprise, met someone very special.

Darque, are you telling me that all of this is inconsequential? That the couple whose wedding I witnessed is less of a couple than in RL, even though they care for each other very deeply? That their relationship is lessened because SL is virtual? That my relationship is lessened because SL is virtual?

No, I can't touch, taste, or smell in SL. But Sheila is right: The world is not real, the bodies are not real. The minds behind those avatars, however, are as real as they are in RL, because they are the same minds. Tell me, do you know your friends in RL more intimately simply because they are physically in front of you? The communication channels in SL may be more limited than in RL, but minds tend compensate for those limitations, and can engage each other just as fully, whether SL or RL. Maybe, because SL isn't as "perfect" as RL, those minds get a little stimulated by the challenge, and can meet more fully than in RL.

In the end, RL or SL, it's all in your mind anyway.

It's a philisophical question of course.. It just depends on what you define as "real". You can define real as everything you can get with all of your senses as real but then again you might not always get everything in RL anyway.. It's a question of perception.

Your senses might even mislead you or if you think a bit further and all of your nerves attached to your eyes, ears, etc. will be connected to a computer which feeds in some virtual reality (e.g. a future SL), how will you ever know? Maybe that's what this "real" world is about anyway (also think of Matrix or even better think of the movie "World on Wires" by Fassbinder which has the better story than Matrix as that the world which the protagonist reaches is still not the real one.. you might go on like this...).

And then there's the question of another definition of "real" is not sense based. Like the people who make it real and basically all your influence of your RL which makes it real. Just think about buying land in SL. It just sort of feels like buying land in RL as you check out who's living next etc. Same with going to a club. Just your RL experience makes it feel like it is. Otherwise it might not make sense to build your home in SL, go to clubs, wear even fashion as you do in RL (nothing seems really different fashion-wise in SL except some exceptions), architecture looks mostly like in RL (why having doors at the ground if you can fly? why having roofs when it never rains?) etc. So to that respect SL is as RL as it can get.

Going on with the people factor. Everyone in there is based in RL and thus this makes for that abovementioned influence (and you might notice that you're not as free to it as you thought to be). And you interact with people.. And btw, because of that I find it very strange if people write in their bios that others should leave trouble behind and they never want to encounter any problem. If you interact with people you will sooner or later encounter some trouble anyway.. especially if you like 'em and even more so if you interact with them in such a RL-like place as SL is. Like in RL you have to deal with it somehow and you'd better do.

Besides that another interesting point might be the interaction between SL and RL e.g. if you get married in SL but also in RL and it's not the same partner it might result in some problems.. (and I even heard of some like that .. Another point here is people who might disappear suddenly and (as things in SL tend to be more separated from your RL profile than maybe in other communities) you have hardly a chance of getting to know what might have happened. That's actually some sort of sad thing if you really liked that person but you don't even have their email addy.

So to sum it up I'd say that SL is as RL as you make it.. It is very hard though to keep the distance to it as I experienced myself. But it's cool nevertheless


PS: Of course you should be aware that the single point of failure is always the health of LindenLab at the moment. If they go down for whatever reason (which does not look likely at the time of this writing but can happen sometime in the future) your platform for business or meetup might be gone.. I really wonder what would happen with your content in that case as you still own the rights to it (so it's not owned by LindenLab as stated in the first post).