Tolerance why is it so hard.

I posted the above in a thread a few days a go and i really meant it. Thinking about it to night made me think why are so many people so intolerant to the way others lead there second life. If you don't like certain aspects of second life then don't go to places that have the things you don't like. there are plenty of other places to go and have fun.

I look at second life as 1000's of stories or novels of fiction. Every person in second life leads a second life in a way that they feel is good for them or The story of there second life, there book.

Just like in real life there are many millions of books printed each and every year about a an infinite amount of subjects. Second life has enabled the every day person you and me to wright our own story and act it out as we see fit. Not every one is going to like the my story and that's fine there are as of now 350,000 other stores they can read or better yet wright there own.

So please remember a little tolerance can go a long way and if you cant do that pick up another story, one that you can relate to.

sincerely

Crucial

I just want to comment that I love how you worded that statement, and I think alot of us wish that's how SL really could be. And I know it's our choosing to keep it like that. Just keep in mind that everyone is human, so when we don't like something....it's hard not to say it. But your 100% right, SL is your prerogative.

-Addi

it's nice, Crucial, but tolerance doesn't get you "lols".

I have a simple answer to your comment:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/21/mideast/index.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/11/mideast/index.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/17/iraq.main/index.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/18/rembrandt.nazis.reut/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13973668/

Lack of tolerance is not exclusively an SL matter. The articles above document events that arose from some form of intolerance or other.

Intolerance is global.

We may not like it, but reality is, there's more of it going around than what's good for us.

People are intolerant of the color of skin, the country of origin, the words you use, your social status, the smell of your breath, the perfume you wear, your color of clothes, where you squeeze the toothpaste tube, your choice in music, and so on. If in real life people are intolerant of such trivial matters, what more the differences inside SL?

I'd be more tolerant of people, if they werent such bloody idiots >.>

I really like the way you wrote this section. Great post.

I agree with the OP on this, and would like to reply to the above quote:
Why do we need to take the intolerance and all the bad shit from First Life into our second lives?

Leave all those wehre it belongs... NOT in SL!

Who really believes that intolerance in itself is a good thing?

I agree that we shouldn't be taking intolerance in. The thing is, *we* are not the problem. You and I are not the intolerants. The ones who are bringing it in are the ones who need to be addressed. But they're intolerant, and many of them are stubbornly so.

How can you address it?

I completely agree!

The links to the negative news stories are very ironic as well.
I am certain that many people enjoy SL for the very fact that they get to create their own worlds. And it is very much the actualization of what one can visualize.

It seems that depending on the person, they are either more
or less of what they are in RL, while in SL.

SL due to its semi-pretend nature is a great place to
leave the messy crap of the global human struggle for
survival and national/cultural/religious/political competition
for status behind us.

In addition those links all seemed to have some religious
overtones. Religion is all fine and good but what does it
actually amount to in "reality"?
It is a set of biochemical structures in the brain of
captured memory as a reflection of the person's perception.

I hope that eventually such self data frames wont be so damn important if they dont match that of others.

Maybe some people just need to get out more or live in big cities of mixed cultures for a while to realize that different is
good not bad.

That is why I have such high hopes for the Virtual World
concept like as in SL. Traditional evolution requires very slow change. Whereas conceptual change is a form of social evolution that can proceed as fast an individual may choose to allow.
The biggest challenge to accepting others is the challenge to
accept one's self.

I don't want to get this off track, so appologies in advance if I do.

Some things should never be tollerated, in SL or RL. I won't go overboard on examples, but for instance glorifying terrorism or promoting neo-nazi views etc should never be permitted. Most other things should though.

The polls in the other threads though were just silly, I mean Furries, Goreans... They're mostly just people here to have fun. If someone can't tollerate other people having harmless fun in their own little corner of the world, then that person shouldn't even be here. Another one that makes me laugh though is the inclusion of nazi imagery in the list... Yeah, if you're using it to promote national socialism then it's bad... if you're using it for an accurate re-enactment of WWII era builds/scenarios then I'll laugh at you if you don't use it. Battlefield 1942 made a mockery of itself by falling into that trap. (Yes, I know Germany made even re-enactment and imagery illegal, but if we forget history, we're doomed to re-live it. If you can't show something at all, you can't show how bad it was.)

Anyway, tollerate people... be nice to one another.

I hate to bring religion into this but "do unto others as you would have them do to you", and "judge not, lest you be judged also" are good maxims here.

Good thread so far, I'm interested in seeing where it goes. And feel free to tear my post apart... I know some will disagree with me, and hey, I'm open to persuasion - sometimes

Tolerance takes effort!

But isn't that intolerance in itself? Just because most people find those things distasteful, don't people still have the right to believe that as much as we do whatever we believe about such matters?

This is the problem... you can never totally remove intolerance because people have the right to believe things we don't like.

Lewis

There is a difference between belief and act.

I can loathe the color pink in all of its manifestations - that's cool.

It gets boring and annoying if I start going off on diatribes about how anyone who wears pink, decorates in pink or thinks pink is superior is full of shit and should be destroyed.

Tolerance stops when I start setting pink things on fire.

Intolerance is always based in the conviction of self-rightousness and infailability. And a strong desire to run other people's lives.

Oh.. and pink, especially pastel baby pink does suck.

"but for instance glorifying terrorism or promoting neo-nazi views etc should never be permitted."

I find this a worrying opinion. Far better, I believe, to let fundamentalists speak their ideas publicly, where everyone else can then counter them, than attempt to silence them, forcing them into dark corners where they continue to speak their mind behind closed doors, only now with the conviction that comes with fighting suppression.

Want to defeat a fundamentalist/neo-nazi/terrorist/etc? Let them speak in debates on national television, so everyone can see how idiotic/racist/evil/etc their views are.

Personally, I find the best way to deal with homophobic fundamentalist Christians is to let them openly say the things I disagree with, then stand next to them and refute them...and when you know the Bible, and all the ridiculous things it contains (eg: raping angels = bad. offering your wife and daughter to the rapists in exchange = good), it is easy to do. Everyone is then able to see the glaring holes in their opinions, and know them for what they are. They aren't so obvious when you silence them.

Ditto with neo-nazis, terrorists, and the rest.

Musuko.

IMO intolerance was born from our survival instinct.

There are things we had to reject (like certain plants) because they were not good for us (e.g. poisonous).

Intolerance served to protect, and for the most part it still serves that purpose.

For most of us I think the instinct evolved into a form that protects world view.

We are intolerant of griefers because a world view is under attack, that of a peaceful second life for everyone.

But for others, world view may include hating mere deviation like Furries and Goreans that do not actually disrupt the peace.

A friend of mine told me a story of a Ku Klux Klan march in a southern American city he lived in years ago. The TV stations placed cameras all along the route in reasonable expectation of a clash between the Klan and parade watchers.

In the event, the population of the city spontaneously avoided the parade route that day. Television news that night showed a few dozen guys in white robes meandering down cavernous downtown streets, waving signs to an audience of yesterday’s litter blowing along empty sidewalks. In the newspapers, the story ended up on the page usually reserved for local news about kids who win the spelling bee.

Not a bad response I think to revolting beliefs. Instead of fighting a lunatic belief that day, the city chose to yawn. A different response would have been appropriate to the act, had the Klan burned crosses on people’s lawns or started lynching the citizenry.

crucial Armitage, I don't need you imposing your narowminded "tolerance" views on me! Show some tolerance for the intolerant! GEEZE

Well tolerance, depending on the person, is either based on knowledge or ignorance. I used go about with the mind set of "Well, if they want to do *sick and/or illegal real life fetish* in SL, let them. They aren't hurting anyone." That was before I did some research about what types of people they are, their communities {outside of SL on the web}, and other stuff about who they are. I now know how silly it is to say, "Not everyone that belongs to the *sick and/or illegal fetish community* really wants to do *sick and/or illegal fetish* outside of a game or their mind." Even though that may be true for a very small percentage of that community, it's more accurate to say "These people are into really sick things." When it gets to the point where they start sharing real life stories about how they came accross two 8 year old girls playing in a plastic pool that involves the word "sexy", or how the neighbors dog was being a tease; it no longer becomes a issue of "These people are just playing for pretends!"

Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to go around greifing them. I'm just not going to fight for their "equality/rights" when they scream "discrimination", nor will I interact with them.

If we start banning people for their ideals and beliefs. Then Second Life should no longer be called Your World Your Imagination.

The very nature of promoting tolerance as a world view would move the neo-nazis into a place where they weren't neo-nazi's anymore, yes?

Accepting people for who they are is one of my biggest strengths in life. There are some people I've met that I accept who they are but choose not to associate with because my own world view prevents it, be that because they are mean, intolerant/bigotted, dumb or just hit on me after I've said 'no' or whatever. But mostly I just get along with folks.

I have to admit to my own bigotry. I can't abide bigots and won't even try to get along with them. I don't see skin color, race, religion or the like as any form of reason not to approach a person with an open mind. When they open their mouths, or perform actions, that tell me they are not nice, hateful, mean-spirited, bigotted or untrustworthy in some way, well, then they are put in a 'do not associate with this *individual*' category. I can't think of a single 'group' that I would refuse to deal with categorically, except those that already proudly proclaim themselves to be bigotted by the nature of the group. That applies both in SL and out of SL.

The other place I draw the line is at anyone wanting to have sex with a minor, cyber or otherwise. I have two sons and I'm watchful and protective of them. If I had a daughter, I think I'd be over her shoulder the whole time she was online, even if she would hate me for it.

Crucial, I totally get what you're saying here and agree.
The problem is, we cannot change the nature of the human race and ultimately, second life or not, its still human beings playing and we don't seem to be able to separate our first and second lives as easily as all that. Would that we could. Or better, that we could spread a little tolerance through First Life.

Char

wow so many replies Thats good

opinions are good and as my daddy always said opinions are like ass holes every ones got one. LOL just a little joke no offence meant at all.

any way I am very happy to see that many do have an opinion on the subject and I have have a few of my own to add to the mix
but first some clarifications

I never intended this to sound like i was imposing anything on any one I was merely pointing out that every one has there own way of living there second life and that if you don't like a particular persons way of living there second life you move on to one you do.


Also there are a few things that should never be tolerated in any shape or form in SL or RL Things that by there very nature bring upon terrifiing emotional feelings in people or The sole purpose of the activity or behavior is geared to hating or bringing harm to others. like Nazi propaganda and racism. To want to bring harm upon another because of who they are should never be condoned nor tolerated in any society.

That said many have brought real world issues and other things to the discussion. I would never dismiss them out right, but we need to remember we are not talking about the real world, we are here in a brand new undiscovered country "the new world " a some what Utopian society, a world in witch we can be what ever our hearts and minds desire or dream up and more. I think I can safely say that each and every one of us is here to some degree or another to escape the real world in one way or another if even for a just few shining moments a day. To live in and be what we want to be in a world that we can make our own. It is this that I ASK tolerance of, tolerance to let any one lead there second life in the way that they choose. So that they may be able to live there second life with out the need to be judged for who or what they are nor worry about being grieafed for being what they desire.


Sincerly

I always felt that if you do stuff in SL that's frowned apon in RL, expect to get called on it. Not saying that people should go greif others for it, but that people should be prepared.

Ok. So should I call on you for being religious or not? Hmm.. let me think about that..

You are welcome to your opinion that you have gathered out of digging for bad things about a community. However, your comments remind me of the way that right-wingers and religious fundamentalists try to say bad things about gay people--they dig deep and find a whole bunch of things, and because they find multiple sources, they can then claim that it's the majority of people in that group, no matter how untrue it is. Again, you're welcome to believe those people in the group you're speaking of are in the majority, and that's fine. Everyone is welcome to their opinion.

I'm talking about the extremes here, nothing more. If you want to compare pedophiles to gays, then go ahead. Althought personally I don't really see them as comparable.