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An open letter to Philip and Robin

Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-20-2006 14:46
From: Doc Nielsen
OMG :eek: His sequined crotch protector's missing!


I couldn't find a picture.... and I am not googling for crotches, I dread to think what would turn up.

Lewis
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
06-20-2006 14:47
From: Doc Nielsen
Does that sound like a firm where people think? At all?


Oh for fucks sake, you bitch and moan all the time about how stupid LL is and that they don't think, they are clueless, blah blah blah. Do I agree with this registration change? Nope, I do think it was short sighted and idealistic on their part. However, to constantly bash LL as being a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are doing is honestly just ridiculous. They are not morons, idiots, or unitelligent. They have incredibly talented developers who are building a unified platform on three different OSes. Their executive team is also pretty amazing as well - Philip is one of the most engaging and intelligent people I've ever spoken with. These are actual individuals you are talking about, not just some faceless corporation. Have you created a streaming 3d world from scratch any time recently?

Do they make decisions I don't agree with? Absolutely. Does that make them the retarded, clueless children that you always rant that they are? No. So yes, it is the same old shit you say all the time, and repeating it ad nauseum doesn't make it true. For as much as you complain, I don't know why the hell you stay in SL.
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Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
06-20-2006 15:12
From: Cristiano Midnight
Oh for fucks sake, you bitch and moan all the time about how stupid LL is and that they don't think, they are clueless, blah blah blah. Do I agree with this registration change? Nope, I do think it was short sighted and idealistic on their part. However, to constantly bash LL as being a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are doing is honestly just ridiculous. They are not morons, idiots, or unitelligent. They have incredibly talented developers who are building a unified platform on three different OSes. Their executive team is also pretty amazing as well - Philip is one of the most engaging and intelligent people I've ever spoken with. Have you created a streaming 3d world from scratch any time recently?

Do they make decisions I don't agree with? Absolutely. Does that make them the retarded, clueless children that you always rant that they are? No. So yes, it is the same old shit you say all the time, and repeating it ad nauseum doesn't make it true. For as much as you complain, I don't know why the hell you stay in SL.



Funny you should say that Cris... :cool:

However, I've not queried their vision, talent or or IQs - what I DO think is that they are lousy managers and worse business-people. And before you haul out Phil's record of snaring investors, consider, a good salesman does NOT automatically mean a good businessman or manager. (thinking about it, being a good salesman doesn't preclude him being a GOOD businessman or manager either - but the evidence I've seen doesn't suggest that he is)

Sadly I don't have your personal experience of Phil's character, it must be comforting to be so close to the man himself, I don't doubt you though. But, what, other than making him a good front man, does that have to do with the day to day mechanics of SL?

Personally I'd much prefer if he were a hard headed graceless bastard who ran a tight efficient company and made things happen. *shrug* I can't think of many people running successful companies who answer to your thumbnail of Phil - those that come close tend to be figureheads who have an infrastructure of professionals running the business.

No, I haven't built a streaming 3D world lately - but then neither do I make a habit of taking the money and failing to deliver the goods on an ongoing basis... So, that definitely puts me one up! :)
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
06-20-2006 15:23
From: Lewis Nerd
I couldn't find a picture.... and I am not googling for crotches, I dread to think what would turn up.

Lewis


's not THAT bad Lewis... well.... I did have to have a stiff drink after, but I'm perfectly OK now.

Anyway, couldn't find a shot of King Phil's um, whatever, but I'm sure someone will turn something up for you to add to the pic.

Hmmm, dare I suggest a search of wossname, thingy, the SL picture site? Bah, Wossname will kill me for forgetting the name of it :eek:
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Nase Sleeper
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
06-20-2006 15:57
The easier the registration, the better.

If there is a problem with griefers and trolls such as many of the idiot trolls that frequesnt this forum, it should not be taken out on those who desire easy registration. Especially those with no credit cards. Not everybody has credit cards. This game whould not be delegated rich people only.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
06-20-2006 16:36
From: Nase Sleeper
The easier the registration, the better.

If there is a problem with griefers and trolls such as many of the idiot trolls that frequesnt this forum, it should not be taken out on those who desire easy registration. Especially those with no credit cards. Not everybody has credit cards. This game whould not be delegated rich people only.


Really Nase? Your egalatarian principles do you credit.
So, if no one brings any money into SL - how is LL meant to pay the running costs?

And why should 'rich people' (US$9.95? A couple of beers! Rich?) subsidise the people who 'can't' (are too damn tight to pay more like it) afford US$9.95 a month - but CAN afford a mid-range PC and a high speed internet connection?

Hmmm? Besides, no one needed a CC, a debit card would do, or a PrayPal account, or even a mobile phone for heavens sake!

Anyway - I don't think the argument is against the free basic accounts as such - we already had that when they were introduced.
It's against the lack of verification/accountability and the side effects of that... Free I think is accepted, albeit grudgingly.

But a breakdown of law and order isn't. And if people 'raise their voices' a little, bear in mind it's not uncommon for 'rich people' to have thousands of US dollars invested in SL, which puts a different complexion on things than you might realise
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
06-20-2006 17:55
From: Nase Sleeper
The easier the registration, the better.

If there is a problem with griefers and trolls such as many of the idiot trolls that frequent this forum, it should not be taken out on those who desire easy registration. Especially those with no credit cards. Not everybody has credit cards. This game would not be delegated rich people only.


Easy registration only helps greafers get quick easy access to second life. You do not need to be rich to have a credit card. you can also get a visa debit card that is linked to your checking account at any bank in the US. You can also get a prepaid visa card at any supermarket.

Also if you own a computer capable of running second life and the high speed Internet connection required to connect with SL then I would think that you could be so poor as not to have at least one of the above mentioned types of credit cards.
Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
06-21-2006 08:05
From: Cristiano Midnight
Robin mentioned they are much more concerned about adults on the teen grid that teens on the adult grid, whatever that means.


Well that doesn't take much working out, in fairness ... and not surprised that they'd be worried about that.
Androclese Torgeson
I've got nothin'
Join date: 11 May 2004
Posts: 144
06-21-2006 09:47
From: Nase Sleeper
The easier the registration, the better.

If there is a problem with griefers and trolls such as many of the idiot trolls that frequesnt this forum, it should not be taken out on those who desire easy registration. Especially those with no credit cards. Not everybody has credit cards. This game whould not be delegated rich people only.


I am sorry, but that is an invalid argument. To get into the game (fee or no) you have to have a Computer and an Internet Connection. The computer can be anywhere from $500 to $2000+ and the Internet connection requires either a telephone line or a Cable line, either of which will run you about $50.00 or more a month.

Paying a one time fee of $9.95 to get into Second Life does not relegate this game to the rich. $9.95 will barely get you lunch at McDonalds. It will get you part of a lunch in downtown Chicago. It's 3 draft beers and a jack-n-coke at a North Woods fishing lodge. $9.95 is the spare change sitting in the creases of my couch. $9.95 is nothing.

However, eliminating that $9.95 barrier has only made it *too* easy to get in, leading to the problems we have now.

The Anonymous Linden Liason post was deleted (for obvious reasons... lets just hope s/he is not unemployed now) but they mentioned that there were alarming numbers of people reaching the CC stage and then backing out. Perhaps that is a good thing.

The old addage of "You get what you pay for" seems to be appropriate right now.
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Androclese Torgeson

Real Life, also known as "that big room with the ceiling that is sometimes blue and sometimes black with little lights"

Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
06-21-2006 11:30
From: Nase Sleeper
The easier the registration, the better.

If there is a problem with griefers and trolls such as many of the idiot trolls that frequesnt this forum, it should not be taken out on those who desire easy registration. Especially those with no credit cards. Not everybody has credit cards. This game whould not be delegated rich people only.


Getting a card suitable for use with Second Life is easy for the vast majority of folks out there. There are TONS of "pay as you go" payment cards that work through the normal VISA/MC network that require very little effort to get. Some you can even get over the net itself and use. Yes, you still have to provide a valid form of identification, so they are still a valid means of verification, but the "I can't get a credit card" excuse doesn't really work anymore nowadays. Well, unless you are a minor, then there's another kettle of fish altogether. ;)
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
06-21-2006 11:45
From: Cherry Czervik
Well that doesn't take much working out, in fairness ... and not surprised that they'd be worried about that.


The point is that they should be equally concerned, honestly - it is far too easy for an adult to get on the teen grid as it was, and now, why would teens want to go to the teen grid at all when they can easily get into the main grid with no billing info, and vice versa? Fairness to LL has nothing to do with it - the teen grid has been exposed to adults this entire time, and now teens can easily access all of the mature areas of the main grid with no billing info. Do you think they aren't just going to lie about their age? Being on the main grid then exposes them to far more adults. It does not make sense for them to be so unconcerned about teens on the main grid.
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Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
06-21-2006 11:49
From: Androclese Torgeson


The old addage of "You get what you pay for" seems to be appropriate right now.



It's not JUST that either. There's this thing called perceived value. If the seller doesn't price his goods or services high enough, the purchaser thinks that they can't be worth having...

Something professional marketing management could tell LL all about...
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Rosa Gardner
Rambling Rosa
Join date: 8 Dec 2003
Posts: 140
06-21-2006 12:24
From: Jopsy Pendragon
I'm very much in favor of having lax entry requirements. The more people that can come in, kick the tires, see if SecondLife is for them with as little impediment as possible... the better!

*BUT*

For gods sake, we need a "Welcome Grid" seperate from the teen and adult grid.

Require the age/credit-card verification before allowing new visitors to move from the welcome grid to the main grid! (or teen grid as appropriate.)

Set the Welcome Grid to 100% PG sims.

Allow normal citizens access to the Welcome Grid to buy land.

Let citizens distribute sampler freebies and strut their stuff in front of potential new citizens to entice them into signing up for the 'full experience'.

We do need a secure fence...

And I want to see it placed where it will do the most good.



I was thinking along this same idea as I read this thread, I like the idea of giving land
owners control but until that can be implemented maybe a temporary solution is needed?

Much like the 7 day trial perhaps new accounts could be directed to a welcome grid,
much like the preview we visit, if anytime before or at the end of the 7days they wish
to expand exploring the world they can verify identity . I wouldnt think this a permenant solution, but with general population unhappy with current conditions, and until resident land owner controls can be placed or a better idea comes along, is this a happy medium for some resolution??
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