Second Life Forums Archive - Bring on the competition - REALLY?

Anna Bobbysocks

Registered User

Join date: 29 Jun 2005

Posts: 373

03-17-2006 13:27

Well, it's more an issue of quality.

Lots of software companies out there develop quality software and don't try to do things that they can't.

LL, unfortunately, tries to implement things they don't know how to implement, which is why we end up with unstable city. They're like pigmies trying to type at a giants typewriter.

Starax Statosky

Unregistered User

Join date: 23 Dec 2003

Posts: 1,099

03-17-2006 13:52

From: Kaboom Pow

I was going to mention that in my post, but thought is was a bit off topic. Yeah, the work done in other worlds with modelling and texturing is amazing, Shenn's work for example. As I recall, in the beginning, all worlds drew off the same object and texture paths. Fortunately, this is no longer the case. But, this doesn't affect me much. I build only in alpha world. Too many complications when building on other worlds and no guarantees those worlds will be online a year from now. Perhaps, AWTeen and Mars being the exceptions.

On another note, it's rumored that the original gate (the black box with the ports, remember?) still exists somewhere. I've found a succeeding gate, but not the original.

TAO!!! My fave world! Who needs drugs when you have Tao to visit?

Zepp Zaftig

Unregistered Abuser

Join date: 20 Mar 2005

Posts: 470

03-17-2006 14:11

In my opinion Croquet is SL's closest competitor. I think it's likely that in 5-6 years, SL has to turn into something like a big distributed croquet space if it wants to survive. Croquet is in active development and it's starting to catch up with SL in the ways it has lagged behind, avatar animations for example was recently added. Individual developers and universities are increasingly starting to add cool stuff to croquet. Croquet should soon be out in a new release, Hedgehog, which is a major leap forward from the current release called Jasmine. Though at the moment it's not really usable for anyone but developers and it's likely to stay that way a while, I think it can become usable for end-users perhaps next year.

One of the big differences between SL and Croquet, is that there are no sims in Croquet, instead the client is basically both a server and client and everything is run on the users' computers. If multiple people are in the same place, computations are synchronized so everyone sees the same. There's an asset system in development called the WorldBase servers that will be a bit like how assets/content work in SL. There's been some discussion about how the WorldBase servers might be used to create big SL-maingrid-like worlds in the future, basically it would be a lot like SL with streamed content and all that, just no sims doing physics calculations etc. but rather everything done simultaniously by each of the clients visiting a location. Though a lot of stuff is not yet working, most things that's been developed or is in development is or will be much more advanced than SL. For example instead of group tools, virtual organizations from the Interet2 standard called Signet. Physics uses the Open Dynamics Engine, an open source physics engine which is probably comparable to havok 1 at the moment but is actively being developed.

Kaboom Pow

Registered User

Join date: 28 Nov 2005

Posts: 81

03-17-2006 14:16

As the french say, idem.

Tao is stunning and Shenn's models carry over to many other worlds making them beautiful as well.

Kaboom Pow

Registered User

Join date: 28 Nov 2005

Posts: 81

03-17-2006 14:18

From: Starax Statosky

TAO!!! My fave world! Who needs drugs when you have Tao to visit? :)

As the french say, idem. :) Tao is stunning and Shenn's models carry over to many other worlds making them beautiful as well.

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

03-17-2006 14:36

What are we comparing LL to? Development definitely does seem to have slowed down on SL, but compare it to any other VW like There, or TSO, or any MMORPG for that matter... how many major new features have been added to any of them that released about the same time SL did, and that didn't require the purchase of an expansion pack? Let's try and keep some perspective, eh?

_____________________

My other hobby:
www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight

Cristiano Midnight

Evil Snapshot Baron

Join date: 17 May 2003

Posts: 8,616

03-17-2006 14:43

From: Chip Midnight

What are we comparing LL to? Development definitely does seem to have slowed down on SL, but compare it to any other VW like There, or TSO, or any MMORPG for that matter... how many major new features have been added to any of them that released about the same time SL did, and that didn't require the purchase of an expansion pack? Let's try and keep some perspective, eh?

Actually neither There nor TSO have had expansion packs

There has actually gotten a lot of new features recently - TSO not so much. However, it is not even about competition to SL. Judging Linden Lab by the simple metrics of keeping their word, they fail miserably. Yes, development schedules slip, but there is a difference between that and just a complete failure to deliver in a reasonable time frame while promising to do so. We aren't the ones setting these expectations either, Linden Lab is - so they and they alone are to blame for the criticism they receive now about their failure to deliver.

_____________________

Cristiano

ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

03-17-2006 14:52

From: Cristiano Midnight

We aren't the ones setting these expectations either, Linden Lab is - so they and they alone are to blame for the criticism they receive now about their failure to deliver.

Yep, I agree with you there. It's why a lot of software companies don't disclose the new features they're working on for the next version of their software until they're ready to ship it. People like Autodesk have strict policies against it so they won't even hint at what they're working on. You don't find out until the formally announce a ship date. Won't surprise me if LL starts being a lot more tight lipped.

_____________________

My other hobby:
www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight

Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

03-22-2006 12:19

From: Chip Midnight

You don't find out until the formally announce a ship date. Won't surprise me if LL starts being a lot more tight lipped.

Is that within the set of things which are logically possible?

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

03-22-2006 12:37

From: Anna Bobbysocks

LL, unfortunately, tries to implement things they don't know how to implement.

If nobody tried to implement things they didn't know how to implement "virtual reality" would still be paintings on cave walls.

Troy McLuhan

Let's make it great

Join date: 17 Jul 2005

Posts: 73

Croquet version 1.0 about to be born?

04-17-2006 23:32

After months of no real news from the Croquet Project, Julian Lombardi (one of its chief architects) posted a teaser in his blog ( http://jlombardi.blogspot.com/2006/04/very-soon.html ):

"The upcoming version 1.0 release of the Croquet SDK is imminent!"

So I went over to David A. Smith's blog ( http://croqueteer.blogspot.com/ ) and found that on April 9, he wrote:

"The next developer release is coming..."

This sounds oddly familiar...

Bring on the competition - REALLY?
Anna Bobbysocks Registered User Join date: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 373	03-17-2006 13:27 Well, it's more an issue of quality. Lots of software companies out there develop quality software and don't try to do things that they can't. LL, unfortunately, tries to implement things they don't know how to implement, which is why we end up with unstable city. They're like pigmies trying to type at a giants typewriter.
Starax Statosky Unregistered User Join date: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 1,099	03-17-2006 13:52 From: Kaboom Pow I was going to mention that in my post, but thought is was a bit off topic. Yeah, the work done in other worlds with modelling and texturing is amazing, Shenn's work for example. As I recall, in the beginning, all worlds drew off the same object and texture paths. Fortunately, this is no longer the case. But, this doesn't affect me much. I build only in alpha world. Too many complications when building on other worlds and no guarantees those worlds will be online a year from now. Perhaps, AWTeen and Mars being the exceptions. On another note, it's rumored that the original gate (the black box with the ports, remember?) still exists somewhere. I've found a succeeding gate, but not the original. TAO!!! My fave world! Who needs drugs when you have Tao to visit?
Zepp Zaftig Unregistered Abuser Join date: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 470	03-17-2006 14:11 In my opinion Croquet is SL's closest competitor. I think it's likely that in 5-6 years, SL has to turn into something like a big distributed croquet space if it wants to survive. Croquet is in active development and it's starting to catch up with SL in the ways it has lagged behind, avatar animations for example was recently added. Individual developers and universities are increasingly starting to add cool stuff to croquet. Croquet should soon be out in a new release, Hedgehog, which is a major leap forward from the current release called Jasmine. Though at the moment it's not really usable for anyone but developers and it's likely to stay that way a while, I think it can become usable for end-users perhaps next year. One of the big differences between SL and Croquet, is that there are no sims in Croquet, instead the client is basically both a server and client and everything is run on the users' computers. If multiple people are in the same place, computations are synchronized so everyone sees the same. There's an asset system in development called the WorldBase servers that will be a bit like how assets/content work in SL. There's been some discussion about how the WorldBase servers might be used to create big SL-maingrid-like worlds in the future, basically it would be a lot like SL with streamed content and all that, just no sims doing physics calculations etc. but rather everything done simultaniously by each of the clients visiting a location. Though a lot of stuff is not yet working, most things that's been developed or is in development is or will be much more advanced than SL. For example instead of group tools, virtual organizations from the Interet2 standard called Signet. Physics uses the Open Dynamics Engine, an open source physics engine which is probably comparable to havok 1 at the moment but is actively being developed.
Kaboom Pow Registered User Join date: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 81	03-17-2006 14:16 As the french say, idem. Tao is stunning and Shenn's models carry over to many other worlds making them beautiful as well.
Kaboom Pow Registered User Join date: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 81	03-17-2006 14:18 From: Starax Statosky TAO!!! My fave world! Who needs drugs when you have Tao to visit? :) As the french say, idem. :) Tao is stunning and Shenn's models carry over to many other worlds making them beautiful as well.
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	03-17-2006 14:36 What are we comparing LL to? Development definitely does seem to have slowed down on SL, but compare it to any other VW like There, or TSO, or any MMORPG for that matter... how many major new features have been added to any of them that released about the same time SL did, and that didn't require the purchase of an expansion pack? Let's try and keep some perspective, eh? _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
Cristiano Midnight Evil Snapshot Baron Join date: 17 May 2003 Posts: 8,616	03-17-2006 14:43 From: Chip Midnight What are we comparing LL to? Development definitely does seem to have slowed down on SL, but compare it to any other VW like There, or TSO, or any MMORPG for that matter... how many major new features have been added to any of them that released about the same time SL did, and that didn't require the purchase of an expansion pack? Let's try and keep some perspective, eh? Actually neither There nor TSO have had expansion packs There has actually gotten a lot of new features recently - TSO not so much. However, it is not even about competition to SL. Judging Linden Lab by the simple metrics of keeping their word, they fail miserably. Yes, development schedules slip, but there is a difference between that and just a complete failure to deliver in a reasonable time frame while promising to do so. We aren't the ones setting these expectations either, Linden Lab is - so they and they alone are to blame for the criticism they receive now about their failure to deliver. _____________________ Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	03-17-2006 14:52 From: Cristiano Midnight We aren't the ones setting these expectations either, Linden Lab is - so they and they alone are to blame for the criticism they receive now about their failure to deliver. Yep, I agree with you there. It's why a lot of software companies don't disclose the new features they're working on for the next version of their software until they're ready to ship it. People like Autodesk have strict policies against it so they won't even hint at what they're working on. You don't find out until the formally announce a ship date. Won't surprise me if LL starts being a lot more tight lipped. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	03-22-2006 12:19 From: Chip Midnight You don't find out until the formally announce a ship date. Won't surprise me if LL starts being a lot more tight lipped. Is that within the set of things which are logically possible?
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	03-22-2006 12:37 From: Anna Bobbysocks LL, unfortunately, tries to implement things they don't know how to implement. If nobody tried to implement things they didn't know how to implement "virtual reality" would still be paintings on cave walls.
Troy McLuhan Let's make it great Join date: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 73	Croquet version 1.0 about to be born? 04-17-2006 23:32 After months of no real news from the Croquet Project, Julian Lombardi (one of its chief architects) posted a teaser in his blog ( http://jlombardi.blogspot.com/2006/04/very-soon.html ): "The upcoming version 1.0 release of the Croquet SDK is imminent!" So I went over to David A. Smith's blog ( http://croqueteer.blogspot.com/ ) and found that on April 9, he wrote: "The next developer release is coming..." This sounds oddly familiar...

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Bring on the competition - REALLY?