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Lindens - is this *really* how you want things to be? |
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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04-02-2006 15:10
Selador, the truth is of the matter, the Anshe banned thread was a matter that was between her and LL and only her and LL. She chose to air dirty laundry and spread her own account information, something that's not supposed to be done anywhere, much less the forums. I'm really not surprised it was taken down. Now you can't post information about yourself? LOL |
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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04-02-2006 15:16
Selador, the truth is of the matter, the Anshe banned thread was a matter that was between her and LL and only her and LL. She chose to air dirty laundry and spread her own account information, something that's not supposed to be done anywhere, much less the forums. I'm really not surprised it was taken down. _____________________
AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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04-02-2006 15:16
Hell, if I were in Zaps position half of the threads would of been deleted. I wouldn't stop until the people in the forums start behaving like they should in real life. Yeah, me too! What do these people think they're doing, freely expressing their opinions? We don't allow that in real life, now, do we? Oh, uh, sorry, my bad.... We do allow that in real life, don't we? |
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Tren Neva
Registered User
Join date: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
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04-02-2006 15:17
can't tell the difference of real life and SL from your elitist point of view? what can I expect off of someone who threatens physical violence because he disagrees  When you're in a forum, it's not a matter of real life vs non-real lifeness like a movie or a video game. You are having conversations just like you would have in real life, just using the internet as a tool to do so instead. All social standards apply to the forums just like they would in real life, and when you start saying things that would get you beat in real life on the forums, you should be beat in real life. |
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Tren Neva
Registered User
Join date: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
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04-02-2006 15:20
Yeah, me too! What do these people think they're doing, freely expressing their opinions? We don't allow that in real life, now, do we? Oh, uh, sorry, my bad.... We do allow that in real life, don't we? Expressing opinions is dandy. Being ignorant and spewing words without using common sense or any sort of reasoning behind what you say is not. |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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04-02-2006 15:21
All social standards apply to the forums just like they would in real life... ...you should be beat in real life. Groan. _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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04-02-2006 15:29
Expressing opinions is dandy. Being ignorant and spewing words without using common sense or any sort of reasoning behind what you say is not. Well thank goodness we don't base our liberties on what is and isn't dandy. |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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04-02-2006 15:33
Groan.  When the Only Tool "One Ponzai Boy" has is a hammer... _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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04-02-2006 15:41
when you start saying things that would get you beat in real life on the forums, you should be beat in real life. you'd look really funny pulling your foot out of your ear if you even so much as thought about "beating" me in my presence you should know who you deal with in real life (since you are so focused on that) before you make threats of physical violence on the innerwebs _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Picabo Hedges
Second Life Resident
Join date: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 262
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04-02-2006 16:03
you should know who you deal with in real life (since you are so focused on that) before you make threats of physical violence on the innerwebs Ooooooh. I know I am scared now... Anyone else? Billy? |
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Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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04-02-2006 16:07
"Stop that fighting, you kids, before I knock both your heads together."
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http://www.TheMagicians.us
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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04-02-2006 16:12
Ooooooh. I know I am scared now... Anyone else? Billy? Im "just sayin" _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Caliandris Pendragon
Waiting in the light
Join date: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 643
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04-02-2006 16:39
Cocoanut, While I agree with your sentiment, there are circumstances where it is about the individual, not about the program. Moderation of a forum should be unobtrusive and nearly transparent for the flow to be there, especially in a high traffic forum. The first group of moderators, there was one who would write a War and Peace length commentary in each moderated thread, which was disruptive - it was longer than the posts in the actual thread often times. This time around, Zap has been overly aggressive in bouncing around threads to the point where it has become disruptive. He also seems unwilling to take any input on the subject - the old "my way or the highway" syndrome - which points I think to why some people might become a resmod in the first place. The reason Zap has been moving things about, is that the aggression on the forums has caused most of the other resmods to run for cover. So he's been the only one about that I have seen over the past few days. In accepting the job of Resmod, he accepted certain guidelines...one of those was to move things that were inappropriately placed. I can't for the life of me see why it is so annoying to have threads moved...but if you ARE annoyed by it, don't shoot the messenger. Zap's doing what he was asked to do, without fear or favour, and I honestly think it is this sort of baying pack mentality which LL hoped to disarm by use of the resmods. Cali _____________________
Numbakulla: Pot Healer's Mystery, free to play and explore
http://caliinsecondlife.blogspot.com/ http://www.nemesis-content.com]Nemesis Content Creation _________________________________________________ The main obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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04-02-2006 16:47
I honestly think it is this sort of baying pack mentality which LL hoped to disarm by use of the resmods. Cali so would the resmod program be considered a success or a failure? (not resmods themselves, the program in full, as coco claims) _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
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04-02-2006 16:50
Ok, lots of replies since I've been away, I'll try to reply to the ones adressing me.
Are you kidding? Go back to the thread where Jeska was asking for input on the ResMod program (only a few hours before launching the same). People don't like to be moderated by their peers simply because their peers expressed a passing interest in doing so. You are moving so many threads, Zap, you're starting to look like an jerk and the comments in the threads you are moving from many different users are starting to support that assumption people are having about you. P.S. Your new forum title "Teh Resmods Are Coming!1" just mocks the part of the community who doesn't agree with the ResMod program. Way to be partial there, Zap. Great way to represent. I'm not sure what comments you mean, usually I just say "Moved to ***", I don't see what anyone could draw from that. I'm moving threads because thats where they belong. And for everyone who thinks a thread needs to be moved, they'll be another who thinks it needs to stay put. I'm not angry, and whether I'm a jerk or not is up to you lot I suppose. As for the title I didn't see it that way, I'll change it. You didn't address the bulk of what I said. This is not about one thread, it's about the swath you have cut through General lately that has been incredibly disruptive to the flow of reading these forums. I don't know how many threads I've moved from General, or how many were borderline, but they're only being moved because they belong there. For every person who finds it disruptive that its been moved, another will complain that thats not where it belongs and should be moved. The resmods are ones of us, who are expected to sacrifice themselves - their reputation, their friends, respect of others - various and sundry things that will go on the line if they do the job at ALL, because doing it at all means they must speak out. If being a ResMod effects any of those things, I never possessed them in the first place. The Lindens should take part of that $11 million and hire someone professional and unbiased to moderate the forums. While I wouldn't say no to $11 million, I see myself as unbiased. I don't have a problem with anyone on this forum, and don't do favors for people I know, like or are friends with. Hehehe, now the "moderator" is engaged in the just-short-of-flame war. Here's an idea for part of the $11 million funding. How about a series of TV ads, along the lines of that credit card company? "Second Life annual membership: $70." "Upgraded video card: $179." "Watching the moderator mud-slinging in the forums: Priceless." If you think I'm mudslinging, please PM me the specific post(s) and I will review them and edit them if nessisary. If you have a problem with ANY of my actions, please PM me rather than bringing the thread off-topic. I'll review whatever happened and if wanted I can submit it for Linden review to have a Linden look over it. _____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
--------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) ---------------  |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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04-02-2006 16:53
The reason Zap has been moving things about, is that the aggression on the forums has caused most of the other resmods to run for cover. So he's been the only one about that I have seen over the past few days. In accepting the job of Resmod, he accepted certain guidelines...one of those was to move things that were inappropriately placed. I can't for the life of me see why it is so annoying to have threads moved...but if you ARE annoyed by it, don't shoot the messenger. Zap's doing what he was asked to do, without fear or favour, and I honestly think it is this sort of baying pack mentality which LL hoped to disarm by use of the resmods. Cali When you have half the front page of General filled with Moved messages, something is amiss - this has never occured before. It is disruptive, and is a sign that they need to scale back on so aggressively moving every post that isn't generically about SL to a finite degree to keep it in General. I am not shooting the messenger, I am commenting on the person doing it the most aggressively, while at the same time expressing an attitude about it. I hate the entire ResMod program and would like it to be abolished. Moving threads are not the issue. It's about the lack of, well, moderate moderation. Pretty soon the entire General forum will be moved right off of Secondlife.com at this rate. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Selene Gregoire
Eyes of the Wolf
Join date: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 681
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04-02-2006 17:31
Here is my 2 cents worth. After having owned several forums and moderated same the only way I will ever mod a forum is if they drag me kicking and screaming to it.
With that said, there is a such thing as over moderation as well as too little moderation. I do give Zap credit for trying to do his job and do it right. However, I do feel he is being somewhat overzealous in his endeavour. The key to moderation is exactly that... moderation. Moving threads that are blantantly out of place is a must but moving those that are not so clear cut requires what I like to think of as diplomacy. There really is no harm in leaving threads that don't quite fit in any particular well defined catagory. It is a simple matter to send a message to someone like Torley and tell them, hey, I'm not sure about this thread, what do you think? If there is no one on at the time to get a second opinion, leave the thread alone until you do hear from someone. My mods always discussed questionable threads with me before moving or editting. Some threads were simply moved (with and explaination of why) to an area that only the admin and mods had access to until such time as a decision could be reached. More often than not the thread was restored either it it's original place or a more appropriate one. Those that were blantantly against the forum rules were deleted by admin. My point is, when in doubt, ask for input. Don't just arbitrarily make a decision based on your interpretation of forums guidelines. We are only human afterall and humans do make mistakes in judgement. |
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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04-02-2006 18:12
Pretty soon the entire General forum will be moved right off of Secondlife.com at this rate. As long as forums.secondlife.com continues to operate, their mere existence will preclude third party sites from having the centrality that this one does. Which strikes me as odd as it does poorly at fostering community and is only moderately effective at communication with Linden Lab (but only in certain venues about certain topics). |
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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04-02-2006 18:37
Yes il have the roast duck with the mango salsa. _____________________
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Chase Rutherford
Oldbie Conspirator
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 126
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04-02-2006 18:41
"Stop that fighting, you kids, before I knock both your heads together." _____________________
Now only half evil! I've been trying to cut down.
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Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
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04-02-2006 18:49
Here is my 2 cents worth. After having owned several forums and moderated same the only way I will ever mod a forum is if they drag me kicking and screaming to it. With that said, there is a such thing as over moderation as well as too little moderation. I do give Zap credit for trying to do his job and do it right. However, I do feel he is being somewhat overzealous in his endeavour. The key to moderation is exactly that... moderation. Moving threads that are blantantly out of place is a must but moving those that are not so clear cut requires what I like to think of as diplomacy. There really is no harm in leaving threads that don't quite fit in any particular well defined catagory. It is a simple matter to send a message to someone like Torley and tell them, hey, I'm not sure about this thread, what do you think? If there is no one on at the time to get a second opinion, leave the thread alone until you do hear from someone. My mods always discussed questionable threads with me before moving or editting. Some threads were simply moved (with and explaination of why) to an area that only the admin and mods had access to until such time as a decision could be reached. More often than not the thread was restored either it it's original place or a more appropriate one. Those that were blantantly against the forum rules were deleted by admin. My point is, when in doubt, ask for input. Don't just arbitrarily make a decision based on your interpretation of forums guidelines. We are only human afterall and humans do make mistakes in judgement. Thank you for your input! I will try and leave the ones that are possible contenders to be moved to Notices and Well Wishes to Linden review when not completely clear cut. I can see it bothers some people more than it would me, but at the time I really don't go into detail about how much backlash moving an "I Love Second Life" thread into Notices and Well Wishes could have. I will leave it up to the Lindens when in doubt and wait for the threads about me being a waste of space to apear  Zap _____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
--------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) --------------- |
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Gus Plisskin
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2005
Posts: 84
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04-02-2006 20:47
It struck me as I was searching for a thread that I had read this morning, which was now no longer there, just how authoritarian and repressive the atmosphere of these forums has become. A few well-known forum participants post conspiracy-laden, demonstrably-false material. These libelous statements have the potential to hurt LL. These posts regularly piss off the bulk of forum participants. Disruptive participants show no signs they'll behave more rationally. How long should forum moderators wait? |
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Spin Martin
Not to be trifled with.
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 31
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This is why I blog
04-02-2006 20:50
This thread is why I have a general wariness and disdain for forums. Especially moderated ones. Blogs aren't one-way communication, it's communication originating from the author and commented on and linked to (and forever cached), etc.
No one edits or moderates. No one censors. Conversation flows freely. Information is more organized (if RSS us used) I really have nothing to add. Spin /who is STILL figuring out which forum to post in/ spinmartin.com | ericrice.com | multiverserecords.com |
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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04-02-2006 22:32
Yea the forum needs improvement. The rules do exist for reasons, but sometimes a few of the people who enforce them might be doing their job a little too harshly. Thats why i don't respect the word 'ADMIN'. An Admin or Mod plain and simple is just another person. They are who enforces the rules. It's HOW they enforce them that determins if the community likes them or not. If they lock or move every topic they dislike, then they are setting a bad example of a someone in charge. But if they only lock the ones that really are violating a rule and is out of control, or are moving a misplaced topic where it really should belong, then its perfectly fine. If a topic doesnt quite fit in anywhere, then just move it to the general discussion forums. Anything should be allowed their. Otherwise you will only lead to more of that same topic being created out of frustration. It causes more problems then what it salves.
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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04-02-2006 22:43
What I find odd is the lack of consistency with the resmod business. Ritchy Cunningham posted a thread with Steve Steed's name in the title and it was shut down in minutes. But there's a thread in the Land and Economy Forum with Anshe Chung's name in it and it's been up for three days and counting.
Of course it couldn't have anything to do with Steve being a resmod, could it? Different standards for different folks I guess. |
