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Why can't SL update this way...just an idea |
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Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
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08-02-2006 12:39
Outside of the US, many of us are on 'capped' broadband packages where we have a bandwidth allocation a month. I have 30gb allowance, the highest my ISP allows, and downloading 25mb patch every week does add up. Lewis There's alot of places inside the US that also have bandwith caps Lewis, its not just outside the states. My friend Walter has a bandwith cap on his cable modem. He only gets like 20gigs of bandwith a month and for every gig he goes over he has to pay another US$5. |
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Sator Canetti
Frustrated Catgirl
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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08-02-2006 14:02
How come Google is not offline every Wednesday? They need to upgrade, fix and maintain the system, too. Because google has about 450,000+ servers and the way their network is set up, an entire colo could go offline with little noticable effect because the internal network is about to route to another shard (google's terminology). Linden labs has under 1500 servers (not sure of the actual amount, and with multi-sims per server, so it's a guess) and also the way the network is set up, if even a single server's interserver messaging is different from the rest, it will not work with the others. They could do rolling resets, but on the impending reset side, the effective grid would become smaller and smaller as servers were taken offline, updated, and restarted, with a grace period for the issues that tend to arise. The 'old' servers would not be able to talk to the 'new' servers. This would likely also cause a lot of additional strain on the asset server, and would disrupt communications, money transfers, etc. Taking the entire grid down is the most effective way to update, as it causes the LEAST amount of problems. _____________________
"Have gone to commit suicide. Intend to return from grave Friday. Feed cat." -- A memo by Spider Jerusalem in Transmetropolitan
"Some people are like Slinkies; not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." If you're reading this signature, I've probably just disagreed with you. Welcome to the club  |
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Raphael Rutherford
Resident Resident
Join date: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 236
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08-02-2006 14:11
I ahve no problem with the weekly upgrade, despite it happening at MY prime time. It's way better than a big bug-loaden monthly upgrade with days of downtime panic to fix the bugs.
But that's not the main problem. If they would just stop implementing all the unrequested, mostly useless features and changes we would be a lot better off. Go vote for prop 700, and help get the message though ! _____________________
Goodbye and thanks for all the prims. |
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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08-02-2006 15:00
This is my first post on the sl boards. I had this thought after seeing today that instead of the usual 3 hour update we have a 5 hour one. Why can't SL pick just one day a month (like the 1st so it's easy to remember for us players) and do do a long update (even 12 hours) and do it all at once? Any thoughts? Two reasons as follows: 1) It makes too much sense 2) that would give them more time to test releases so we wouldn't end up with all these buggy releases. In re reason two, see reason one. |
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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08-02-2006 15:03
There is also internal discussion, as Robin hinted at in her post the other day, about our release process and frequency. These discussions are likely to lead to changes far sooner than the previously mentioned message system changes. However they won't remove the need for at least semi frequent full down time updates. But it would allow for fuller testing and removal of bugs, some of which are costing content creators money while NOT being adressed. |
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Catherine Omega
Geometry Ninja
Join date: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 2,053
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08-02-2006 15:43
In the "Of Previews, Feedback & Testing" session during the Second Views meeting on June 30th, I asked Joe Linden about using smaller patches instead of having to download the whole client each time there was an update. He said that it was a high priority for Linden Lab to move toward a system of patches. He didn't give a timeline, but it sounded like something they were actively pursuing. The thing to remember here is that to the developers, the issue isn't an argument with the two perspectives being the residents' "guys, this is really dumb. Why should we have to download redundant data?" versus LL's "SILENCE, MORTALS! YOU'LL DO WHAT WE TELL YOU!" No, obviously they know it needs to be done too. From the perspective of Linden Lab, the issue tends to become one of simple mathematics: 1. How many developer hours will this take to accomplish? 2. How much money is 25MB per user per week costing us? 3. How much money are we losing in lost revenue? 4. How many people are annoyed by this, and what does that annoyance cost us in PR? 5. Is NOT doing it preventing us from making further changes in the future? 6. Could it be implemented as part of a larger project? 1 and 2 are easy to find out. 3 and 4 are the most difficult to define, but should be considered. 5 and 6 are frequently subjective to the developers' own plans. If the value of doing it outweighs the value of not doing it, it becomes a no-brainer. For much of the past few years, it hasn't been a priority for a reason: development time was better spent elsewhere, even though it inconvenienced a sizable minority of users. However, as recent posts from Kelly and Robin have indicated, it's now something that they're developing, because it just doesn't make sense not to do so anymore. _____________________
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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08-02-2006 15:54
The time to do an update is not generally related to the size or scope of the update. We can't really do a 1 hour update, and we do try to make these updates take the least amount of time possible. There are currently 3 types of updates: Viewer Only - no down time at all. However it is very limited in the scope of things that can be changed or fixed. Rolling Update - If there are no changes to our internal message structure we can do a Rolling Update. For this there is no global down time, however each sim is shut down and restarted once. Full Update - If there is a change to our internal message structure we must do a full down time update. The entire grid must be stopped all at once. New code must be deployed, and then every sim must be started again. This is painful and we do it as quick as we can. Currently our message system is very structured and strict. This means any change to the format of data being transmitted requires a Full Update to deploy. We think this sucks. We are working on replacing our message system with a more robust and flexible system where servers (sims) with different message versions can still talk to each other. This is not an easy or quick change, however once it is done we hope to be able to do nearly all updates as Rolling Updates. There is also internal discussion, as Robin hinted at in her post the other day, about our release process and frequency. These discussions are likely to lead to changes far sooner than the previously mentioned message system changes. However they won't remove the need for at least semi frequent full down time updates. Thumbs Up Kelly _____________________
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Azzura Supplee
Safety Girl
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
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08-03-2006 13:50
From other MMO internal experience:
Small patches instead of full replacement causes alot of future bug problems.... like putting bandaids on a leaky water balloon - would you rather have a bunch of bandaids on your balloon which might not quite be perfect.....or a pretty new one where you can see the whole surface and see if there are any more problems. And as the bandaids pile on - they start to effect the stickiness of the old bandaids.....then soon you cant see your balloon....and it is an ugly lump of bandaids. Orrrr....on your house...do you want a NEW FREE roof - or someone to put globs of tar where they THINK it is leaking. The other thing is - if they wait a month at a time....there is no load testing, and bug will be there - no matter how many more hours it is tested....and even then, someone testing wont find it cause they didnt do it in a strange way. Bug testing isnt as smooth as you might think  |
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Thrash Misfit
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2006
Posts: 16
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08-03-2006 14:04
Even better: why can't SL update like Guild Wars? No downtime at all for updates. Ever. Just log on, it spends about 30 seconds auto-updating and that's it. This is all in a game with no monthly fees either.
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