American Apparel: RL fashions come to SL

As someone who runs a RL clothing business, I felt my twopence was worth putting into this thread.

We are a medium sized business and are retailers and consultants, rather than designers. However we do have RL items designed for us, so cross into the design market from time to time.

I can't speak for any other business as to their motivation.

Why would we consider SL as an area in which to explore?

Firstly, we do not anticipate taking market share away from any inlife designer, simply because our clothing is designed for RL, though the product line we will be introducing to SL is adult clothing and accessories. This particular line of business was chosen, simply because, as at least one poster on this thread has mentioned, lingerie and fetish gear is a strong SL clothing market.

Will we be using our own designers? No way and no chance, we are an internet retail and consulting business, in RL we use specialsits, in SL we will do the same.

Are we interested in trying to take SL designs into RL. When I first came in game, I would definately have said no. Having been around the stores and world, we now have a different view. There are some great designers in this place and if they can design on the tools used in SL they sure could design RL concepts that we could turn to clothing. So I can see us employing SL designers to convert their ideas into RL.

Why, if we don't expect to make alot of money out of SL are we here? Simply put, the 3d mall is the way forward for internet retail and where better to practice than in what is a functional platform.

What else... We have a proposal with LL to try to develop some innovative ideas into SL, we shall see if they come to fruition.

Who are the best designers of the 'Virtual mall' these are the SL builders and again we would look to these designers in RL as well as commissioning them in SL.

There are major TOS issues, which LL may not be able or willing to change, as a business looking to JV work, we need to be able to set up enforceable contracts in SL which will protect not just ourselves, but as importantrly SL designers who we commission 'creative work' from.

As I said, I cannot speak for any other business and they will have their own models and reasons for entering SL.

What does that do for SL? Are we not just exploiting and adding nothing to the SL experience.

I expect and hope not. We intend to bring in other new ideas to SL which will become useable features ingame, for a wide number of players, will be looking to partner and engage with people in SL to make attractive, creative builds. We need them to be low-lag, easy to use and efficeint processes. If they are not, there is no way the RL 3d sites will function.

Our business model will be to create something that makes people want to engage, not something which repels and as such the build and creations need to fit into the SL style, rather than just a transposition of RL activity into SL.

So apart from commerce, why are we doing it.

For the same reason most people seem to be in SL. Its a creative environment, fun and enables boundaries of creativity to be extended further than reality would allow. If we make a financial success out of SL that is a bonus, but definately not an objective.

I've only been in their Boston store, which does not have any signs like that. But I'm willing to believe that they do in less prudish markets, especially outside the US.

Dov Charney is my hero.

Sachi

The model for commissioning in SL, will be similar to RL. However I recognise, as we do in RL, that new designers need encouragement, as much as the more experienced. As an organisation we have always worked with a blend of new and established names, in whatever field we are operating, this will extend to SL.

As far as how we will find them.

We will undertake basic research, obtain referals and be more proactive in finding people. Classified and possibly a competition.

The cost of acquisition and the loose TOS make buyouts unrealistic, at present.

Payments to designers. In SL This really depends on the designer, do they want to become employees? I doubt if that would suit and I feel there would be significant problems in this type of relationship. However a designer who becomes a RL designer, would be a different thing altogether.

As I mentioned in my previous post, we only cross over to design from time to time, so have no full time designers in RL, I can't see this changing even with SL, as that is not our RL business model. But I can't see why a design house, who decides to operate in SL and use those designs in RL, wouldn't employ full time designers, in the same way that LL has full time employees and Anshe.com has full time employees, there may well be others who do as well.

That said, if we were to create a RL clothing range from a SL designer, we would contract with the RL person not the SL avatar.

As I have posted elsewhere in another thread, we envisage introducing about 1,000 items to SL, which are already in existence in RL. If we add another 100 SL designs to take back to RL, it gives an idea of where our concentration lies. Would we pay, RL salaries to designers in SL for those 1,000 designs, that is not yet known. We have set aside a marketing and development budget for this and know our per item budget.

While ingame I have used a few people to do some small scale work and I am aware of the timescale taken in the designs and would say I have paid slightly under the RL per hour rate for the work done, but not significantly so. I would also add, that as has been posted on this thread, it depends on where the designer is based in RL as to whether it is an above or below RL rate.

In RL we only use UK design teams so I am taking this level of cost, if the SL designer we employ is from a country with lower wages, we don't and wont discriminate and it may be that they will find our level of payment significantly better than they could do in RL.

It would be good to turn some of the SL items into RL products, this is bein done with some furniture already and extending that to clothing is not a far fetched process. Already, there are t-shirts around which emanated in SL. The more fanciful costumes are in the main transposable, it's a question of what it is and whether there is a RL market.

One of the comments made on this thread and in Business articles, is does an individual using an avatar (a fantasy figure in many cases) really have any interest in wearing or using the creations available in SL and that is as yet an uncharted question. So while the concept is 'No reason why not' it is the reality of why people play SL and whether that avatar is an extension of the RL person or a fantasy model, who is way off beam from the avatar.

At least these developments are interesting to watch, huh, Io?



I'm extremely curious to learn more about your views on this, Nowun. My company simply uses a regular everyday independent contractor agreement, like any other small professional software development studio. I understand why people with strictly inworld businesses might want to avoid that in order to maintain anonymity, particularly when the dollar amounts are hobby-level and perhaps not worth a RL court case (not to mention dealing with RL contracts and etc. isn't exactly "fun". But I'm curious as to why a RL business would choose to rely on an inworld contract instead of something more mundane.

Kim

My phrasing was a little clumsy.

The concern with the TOS relates to the contract between LL and myself.

I would like to see this tightened whilst paradoxically broadened, to permit a TOS between my organisation and LL. This will enable contracts in RL to be far stronger. As it stands the TOS could mean any investment we make in SL being wiped in moments, with out recourse and if we have contract with an SL developer, they too will be affected by this.

Additionally in setting up a JV, the 'group' tools are of limited value, as the ownership is by an individual with a TOS with LL and only thereafter protected by a RL contract.

I hope that clarifies my point.

Ah, I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying, Nowun! It can be a bit troubling, especially thinking about the non-portability of so much of what is created here, with the lack of full external backups, etc. On the other hand, I certainly understand why Linden Lab has framed their TOS that way. Despite that, it would destroy their trustworthiness if they really did simply wipe a partner company's assets. In my experience they ARE trustworthy . . . I am willing to bet on them pretty heavily myself. I'd be happy to discuss with you sometime my experience regarding just how far LL went to protect one of my clients' assets and what they did, above and beyond what we expected, in order to make sure their project was a success -- just drop me an IM.

I no longer rely on group tools and the permissions system when working with my team or our clients. It just doesn't fit our purposes in fully collaborative content creation, and a client's staff should be able to hand around and work with the content in-house as needed. Now I give full permissions to clients, between us count on our contract and real-life copyright law and registration, and offer to assist my client in setting permissions correctly for their own practical use.

You know, there is an awful lot of interesting food for thought in this thread. Maybe we should have an inworld discussion event. Anyone else interested?

Kudos again to Aimee.

Thanks Kim

Yes, I would be interested in a discussion on this thread, particularly as a newbie to SL. There are probably many ideas available inworld which could be of use with what we are trying to do, plus of course experiences by others, willing to share their knowledge would be helpful.

It may also be something that would help dispel the myth of the faceless corporate tryiing to destroy the game for profit.

Whether inworld would be a popular venue is a moot point. There is a thread on having an inworld meeting point to discuss threads on the forum, which has a mixed response.

We'll get a good turnout of interested, interesting folks who share our concerns if I set this up as an event hosted by the RL Work in SL group. I'll ping the other officers and get it set up.

Looking forward to it!

(BTW, anyone who'd like to join the group, please IM myself or any of the officers!)

Oh, I just noticed an announcement in the Metaverse Messenger for an event where a panel will be specifically discussing avatar-based marketing. It's on the 23rd at noon Pacific Time. Events listing here http://secondlife.com/events/event.php?id=234437&date=1151089200 Looks like it'll even include someone from American Apparel. Should be interesting!

Thanks for the heads up Kim

Will you still be looking to run a RL Work in SL workshop?

Nowun

There are plenty of broader issues to discuss related to doing RL business in SL, so yes, I'm going to gather our group officers and arrange an event.

I'll be sure to keep you in the loop.

I mostly lurk here in the forums but after reading some of this thread, I did a search on this company. This is one of the more interesting things I read
http://www.americanapparel.net/presscenter/articles/20050624sfgate.html

I just really had to laugh.