Why does architecture in SL lag so far behind fashion?

Why are people so demanding of how their avs dress but don't really care so much about where they play?

why is it that the secondlife landscape is still predominantly a giant eye bleed?

because most people have no taste? xD though i would argue that extends to clothing in sl also

I wish I knew. It's not like there aren't a ton of nice looking, inexpensive prefabs out there, either.

I would guess that it may be because it is very easy to buy thousands of outfits, shapes, hair, bling, avatars etc... because people are vain and want to look 'their best' even though it's just a bunch of pixels on a screen.

However, the same can't be said for buildings in SL. Sure, there are a few people who sell 'newbie housing' which serves a purpose... but for anyone wanting a bigger build or something more unique will probably have to either have a lot of land, or hire someone to build for them, as building is definitely much more of a skill than "buy > wear".

Buying land represents a bigger expense, and therefore a commitment to Second Life over a longer period, which people are less and less inclined to do as the imbalance caused by free accounts - who generally do not invest any real time or money or commitment into the game.

Sure, there will be a few people who will build because they enjoy it, at various levels of success and skill, but in the majority people just won't bother.

Many of the 'commercial ventures' are actually quite ugly, and built purely for function rather than aesthetic value. How many clubs are just big boxes, for example, using bought-in lighting units and streaming one of about half a dozen techno streams from Shoutcast? I think, in my time here, I've seen one that was different, based on an egyptian pyramid. The rest are essentially just boxes.

We also have the issue of camping chairs/dance pads. Who cares what the area you are in is like, or even how laggy it may be, if all you are doing there is leaving your avatar logged in to make some money whilst you sleep?

A greater sense of community would go a long way towards this. SL isn't a massive multiplayer online game really, it's a place where thousands of people log in to do their own thing and generally not care about anyone else. That surely can't be a good thing, or helpful towards the whole future of SL.

Lewis

You don't have to own land to buy clothes. So there are more people to spend money on clothes. Productivity goes where the money flows.

The clothing textures go with you wherever you go. When you leave your building it makes no difference what your building looks like because you can't see it.

Also the clothes are made in third party software, with good interfaces, that work pretty much correctly, while the buildings are made in SL, which has a building interface that is both badly designed and which doesn't work right in a a number of very signicant ways.

That's the solution! Nice prefabs! That's exactly what Wu was talking about! No more eye-bleeds - in fact, no need for eyes at all.

Despite this, more people are inclined to just "have a go" at building rather than making clothes and while that free expresion is their right, there is also a reason why I spent 7 years studying architecture before I was allowed to practice in the real world.

Sorry but the majority of people building out there have no clue, let alone no taste.

I'm pretty sure building/prefab sales are a hell of a lot slower than clothes. As noted there are a lot less land owners and people don't usually change their builds much as it's a lot of work.

A lot of people use their land for building experimentation - which by its very nature means everyone passing by the land can see it in its varied states of skill and completion. If you're experimenting with making clothing, the texture file is sitting in Photoshop or quickly taken off your av if its not up to your standards.

True, but I think in real life even, people are simply far more interested in and aware of clothes than they are of buildings, by which I mean, they really bother to look at and understand them.

Ask most people to draw (or build in SL) a house and I'm afraid most adults attempts are little more sophisticated than those of a 6 year old, never having advanced their appreciation of scale, proportion or detail beyond those early impressions.

There are still gaps in casual fashion trends between different nations, though not as much as they were just 10 years ago. I worked in the states in 1995, and everyone seemed to be wearing clothes and hairstyles that were prevalent in the UK about 5-10 years previous. I know from comments made to me, that I stood out like a sore thumb!

You only have to visit a few countries to find huge differences in what is considered to be 'modern architecture', for example. Cars/automobiles have also traditionally differed in design across the atlantic, though again, that difference seems to be closing. So I'm sure that it's almost impossible for any individual to find everything in even a small area aesthetically pleasing.

BUY LORDFLY'S PREFABS



Seriously, though; perhaps it's because of several reasons:

1) People can think and design in 2d better than 3d;
2) The variables associated with a freeform structure are much more forked than with an avatar template, hence harder for creativity to properly flow;
3) Architecture's boring, especially when considering the amount of exactness required to make things look nice (and grappling with bugs)
4) Shortcuts prevail in building -- why should I make a multi-faceted dome when I can just make a hollowed out 10x10 sphere?
5) Jauani keeps the newbies down by razing their creations Simon Cowell style.

The clothesmaking makes use of standard bitmap paint programs that lots of folks have years of experience with, while the building tools, in addition to being badly designed and buggy, are made to build things with prims, which most of us stop doing once we leave childhood and stop playing with blocks.

Another factor would be that clothes fashion bombards us all the time, in the magazine racks at the end of the cashier's station one find's fashion and beauty related magazines but their is not usually an Architecture Digest sitting their trying for an impulse buy.

There ARE nice prefabs out there you just gotta *LOOK* for them
Hell I am happy as a pig in you know what with the prefab I'm living in, it's beautiful

Exactly.

~Tya

I think what people forget about building, the key to building is using textures. I have seen some great structural builds in the last 3 years, but when textured hap hazzardly.. ouch. ruins it. I have talk to many pepole who dont know how to texture, when its really really simple...

/me thinks about starting a texturing class...


~Tya

Good adve^h^h^h^h question Jauani you're terrible. Mostly what LF and Suez said plus the fact that this is all still new and untried. Some people simply want to reproduce a real world feel here; others want something completely different; and, as Cory said, some people just practice building on their land with no consideration of the people around them. All's fair in love and virtual worlds, so far.

Dreamland has sandbox sims and the requirement that you experiement and practice there, not on your "residential" or "commercial" property. I imagine it won't be long until all of the budding worlds support similar areas and restrictions. LL never did that because they're few early zoning attempts were disastrous. I think they failed primarily because the population then was a bunch of early adopting technogeeks that weren't nearly as interested in building a wora'uld as we were helping to develop useful software.

To me Second Life is all about creating immersive environments for people to enjoy using their avs. LL knifed that aspect in the heart when they installed mouselook rather than a traditional first person mode. We have it on life support and do what we can with what we have knowing that one day they'll realize the horror of their decision and grant us first person mode again Oh Wise Lindens Hail and Praise unto Thy Glorious Ranks

When the software is licensed so that thousands of groups can build actual worlds to their own specifications, and other interests can build worlds that facilitate professional use of the software, we'll begin to see the possibilities blossom like we can't imagine. Until then, we're stuck with everybody on one landscape trying to do a million different things. That's what you see when you look around Second Life.

Let's use a few examples of nice prefabs

I think a good part of the reason is that to own a house, you need land, which means paying real money (even if you are making enough L$ to cover your land, you are still effectively paying real money because you could have cashed out the L$ otherwise).

People paying real money want to get the maximum possible value from that, and that means using all the features of SL - which includes building, and expressing their own creativity. Paying money to get land then paying again to buy someone else's prefab design then paying again to buy someone else's prefab furniture and then living your SL governed entirely by what other people have chosen to provide for you just isn't that appealing to anyone, I think. People would rather live in an ugly house they designed than in a beautiful one they bought, because honestly living in a purchased prefab just feels like looking at screenshots.

I think its more about prims. When a person gets their first land, we all have delusions of granduer for building. The we build away and sometimes its very nice. Then we furnish it only to see item can't be rezz'd because of no more objects available. At least for me, I saw this and said well god by nice building, hello four walls and a ceiling. then I think, Um... what else can I get rid of.. well guess I dont really need those flowers. If its a store, using prim space for architechture does not seem to generate the traffic, as there are some amazing looking stores, but the traffic is tiny.. its whats inside that counts. Each prim takes away from another item that could be sold as well. There really isnt a motivation for people to build nice buildings unless thay have a good amount of land which in turn has a great amount of objects available. Simply most people don't have prims to burn lol. Increasing the prims wont help either because it will only further the problem now. So basically, buy an island, make it how you want it, and then you don't have to look at the eyesores.

Your premise is faulty - this is because you are an architect. Therefore 95% of the built environment looks like crap to you. If you were a fashion designer, you would realize that 95% of the avs out there are dressed in cheesy crap. If you were a vehicle maker, you would realize that 95% of the vehicles out there look and handle like crap.

I have not been here very long and this is my first post to the forums. (Can't you tell SL is offline ) but this thread interests me greatly.

I find myself torn between wonder at the diversity of building and structures I see around me and what *I* feel looks good. I have spent thousands on the land where I reside trying to get a look that I can love and that passers by would think 'wow look at that'. I am slowly achieving the former (still very much a work in progress), and the latter can only ever be hoped for.

I do like to see the different ideas and structures that others implement. Some I like and some are not my cup of tea which brings me to the nub of the matter.....I can quite tolerate anyones creativity (or lack of it ) unless it happens to sit next door to me ...or impedes upon the flow of the lines I took so long creating. Just like in RL I suppose.

After the insanity of my first land purchase (nothing around it on the day of purchase, boxed in by malls and adverts by the third), I went on the hunt for some 'proper' land. Found a nice big stretch and decided to build an apartment block to rent apartments. The idea was to live there myself too and make it a nice friendly place to live. I was really pleased with the look until I realised I had used so much of my prim allocation on making things look good that I could not rent out the apartments.

Ok so brought in a pro to trim everything a rebuild more prim efficiently and whilst he did his job very well and the apartments could be let the 'look' and feel of the place was totally changed and not my 'dream' So now the aps are let but would I want to live there? NO would I want it next door to me? NO so I can quite understand that there are limitations on structures (especially commercial ventures) that affect how the place looks.

So I bought more land so I did not have to look at it every day. Now I feel bad because people pay me to live there!

Still these are the things that make SL exciting and wonderful to me. It is not like a game where you complete a level and move on, things are always evolving and changing and each time they do it impacts on the decisions I will take tomorrow. That is what will keep me here long term...no doubt.

With apologies for the blatent noobie enthusiasm
Very best wishes
Lord H

I've been thinking about this a lot Jauani - and share in a lot of the thoughts expressed in this thread, esp. with regard to prim limiations, however sometimes it could be suggested that 'less is more'

While clothing can be employed as a mask to our true selves, more often it seems to act as an outward expression of how we wish to represent ourselves to others, with the goal of recognition from one's peers.

Architecture in SL seems to succeed as a commercial venture when it is marketed in a similar manner, as a kind of fashion accessory that instead of being worn to make an impression wherever you go is left behind to perform a similar function - the exception of course being to make an impression on visiting guests.

While architecture has the potential to represent this outward expression, it also expresses significant pressure inward, toward the individual avatar. Part of this is the facilitation or hindrance of a desired function - even if simply to store and display other objects of desire.

Part of the response to this 'pressure' seems to be surrounding oneself in the familiar and that which has been self-created or controlled.

But then again, I might be full of crap.

I'm a graphic designer, so I think a lot about the areas look crap *laughs*.

However I like the gorean sims enviroment/architecture wise!!

I think the problem is that there are many businesses out there that just care about making a profit over how their building looks. When I made my house I looked at the other houses/plants around me and tried to get something that suited them. Then some guy shoved his business next door which was a bunch of brightly coloured signs that completely blocked the neighbours view. I've found that now a lot of people have just stuck their business in front without a care who is behind, or what their building looks like if people use their casino machines or buy whatever they try to sell.

I think ideally SL would look better aesthetically if business and homes, skyboxs, clubs, etc where all in different catergories. You house can be very well designed but if it is stuck between adverting then that will degrade the overall appeal.

Saying this, realisticaly seperation wouldn't really work either. I definately agree with the earlier comment that people need help with texturing.

@Lord Humphrey

When I got my firstland I knew in advance that I had to be very efficient with prim usage since I wanted a large workshop, a residence, a store, and prims enough left over to rez a vehicle.

So from the ground up I looked at efficiency, getting most of what I want with the lowest prim usage. I'm very happy with the results.

I have more modern tastes with preference for simpler lines so I wound up creating something in transparent and reflective glass, concrete, and green marble that I loosely call a ziggurat. Essentially it's a huge two-level trapezoidal prism with assymetric touches. On the basic 16 x 32 parcel I have a workshop that's 10m high with a floor area of 15x20m. Above that is a 10m high residence with a roughly 15x 12m floor area.

Total prims for just the building? 21, including the upstairs and downstairs sliding doors.

It's certainly no Taj Mahal but it turned out everything I wanted it to be, yet I still have my nice hedges, two fountains, teleport pads, a tree in a planter ... and then some.

@OP

Architecture would naturally lag behind from the community-wide perspective. Everyone works on their avatars but not everyone is concerned about what their homes look like or if they have one. Avatars don't need a home, but all avatars need appearance.

Maybe we should be glad that not everyone decides to set up a homestead. If clothing/skinning tastes in avatars reflect how they will build ... I'd rather not see what some of them will build.

95% of avatars and vehicles, and homes do look either too similar or crap but objectively speaking, our avatars get the lion's share of time viewed by other avatars. I think a lot are aware of the fact that the avatars are our most seen element and act accordingly.